Power shares

[Marilyn Munroe]

As I understand it, in the short term, there seems to be no way that the electricity produced at Manapouri can be incorporated into the national power supply. It is effectively “stranded” somewhere down in the deep south.

Manapouri is not stranded from the National Grid. There is a high voltage AC line from Manapouri to Bromley(Christchurch) with a tap point in the Twizel switch-yard. Manapouri electrons destined for the North Island via the Benmore HVDC link can travel via lines connecting Twizel OHau C and Benmore.

In a future Tiwai-less situation there is insufficient capacity in the system to carry the electrons north if both Manapouri and the Clutha stations are operating at full throttle.

Transpowers capacity constraint removal project does not involve another line of towers marching across the landscape.. Existing lines will have their capacity increased by strengthening towers and upgrading the conductor plus switch yard upgrades.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[Carpenterjoe]

If this artical is correct, it will take transpower 150m and three years (2023) for the electricity to be available to the country.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/environment/cl...-for-emissions

[Jantar]

Manapouri is not stranded from the National Grid. There is a high voltage AC line from Manapouri to Bromley(Christchurch) with a tap point in the Twizel switch-yard. Manapouri electrons destined for the North Island via the Benmore HVDC link can travel via lines connecting Twizel OHau C and Benmore...….
Marilyn

Yes there are a number of lines:
Manapouri to North MaK and Invercargil.
Invercargil to South Dunedin and Roxburgh.
Then the constraint.

Roxburgh-Clyde-Cromwell-Twizel and
Roxburgh-Nasby-Livingston-Waitaki Cannot carry the amount of energy needed for transmission further north.

Its like having 1600 tonnes of material to be trucked, but only enough trucks to move 1000 tonnes. The upgrade referred to by yourself and Carpenterjoe will alleviate some of this mismatch, but not all of it.

The ROX-CYD-CML_TWZ upgrade to duplexing has already been completed, and some of the ROX-NSY circuit has had a thermal upgrade. The duplexing will require some new towers as the weight of the new conductors and the increased wind and snow loading will require stronger towers in places. The new, larger, towers may require resource consent, and that could delay the project past the 2023 estimate.

Longer term the solution is pumped storage hydro at Lake Onslow, and I believe Professor Bardsley will be presenting on this at the Hydrological Society Conference in December.

[horus1]

The key to all this is to increase the utilisation of the Transmission system . that involves batteries as Meridian are stating and as is being done overseas . You have to be careful with what you have to build. It needs new thinking by a staid industry.

[dibble]

The key to all this is to increase the utilisation of the Transmission system . that involves batteries as Meridian are stating and as is being done overseas . You have to be careful with what you have to build. It needs new thinking by a staid industry.

Have just been pondering the same. Be good to hear the experts discussing wider ideas about boosting local consumption, e.g. the coastal shipping fleet will one day need to wean itself off diesel, if they went electric sooner they could "fill up" at Christchurch and Picton. Perhaps move core data centres to the south Is. Trams in Chch, electrify the railway. None of it simple but it all adds up now that there is new impetus (may create a few jobs as well).

[Carpenterjoe]

Yes there are a number of lines:
Manapouri to North MaK and Invercargil.
Invercargil to South Dunedin and Roxburgh.

Longer term the solution is pumped storage hydro at Lake Onslow, and I believe Professor Bardsley will be presenting on this at the Hydrological Society Conference in December.

Pump storage is great infrastructure, great for grid stabilisation, localised drought management, excessive production management, peak usage and back-up.

Thanks for the lake onslow information, once my Genex shares go large, ill go long on a Onslow play.

[GTM 3442]

<snip>

Longer term the solution is pumped storage hydro at Lake Onslow, and I believe Professor Bardsley will be presenting on this at the Hydrological Society Conference in December.

Out of idle curiosity, to what problem is pumped hydro at Lake Onslow the solution?

[Carpenterjoe]

Out of idle curiosity, to what problem is pumped hydro at Lake Onslow the solution?

If the future is electric cars and roof top solar, ect. The grid can encounter problems with over supply during the middle of the day.

Roof top solar operates when you dont really need it and individual residential batteries options can be as expensive as the solar panels. Also during the life of the solar panels you may need 1-2 replacment batteries. Alot of people have affordable systems installed in Australia but do not get the expensive batteries. Pre-covid this was an issue in queensland the grid was charging households to export electricity to the grid. Yes this only happened on a few occasions and for a short time, but currently the grid in australia cannot handle the speed solar is being installed. (Alot of solar plants are not operating at capacity, due to grid overloading)

Now I understand australia and nz are two very different energy generation countries. But lets put ourselves in the solar/electric car future. NZ is in the middle of a calm hot summers day and an earthquake causes a loss of controlled production (south island dams) or damages major transmission lines. There may be instant demand to use a pump to pum up to stabilise the grid, so solar systems and lack of demand do not overload and cause fire or to release water so everybody's beers stay nice and chilled.

It can work as a back up to billions of dollars worth of infrastructure assets and it is a fraction of the cost of batteries.

[horus1]

Look at it from a customers perspective,solar is very economic, as are batteries . In the future with H2 many people will leave the networks.

[iceman]

Look at it from a customers perspective,solar is very economic, as are batteries . In the future with H2 many people will leave the networks.

Horus with your obviousl knowledge of the industry, could you point me to any good "economic batteries" to store my residential solar production, rather than sell it back to the grid ? I am keen but have never been able to make the numbers work when I have looked at it, admittedly not for the last 18-24 months, so much may have changed in that time.