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  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    I think I may not have made my point clear in my response to another poster. Namely: Much of NZ business is now actually in foreign ownership. So, owning foreign shares may actually be a way to invest in those companies who own NZ businesses now.

    However in relation to imputed dividends I disagree. It gives a tax-neutral flexibility for companies to either retain or distribute tax paid profit. Attaching imputation credits means that the shareholder is not then in effect double-taxed on the company profit. If the tax paid profit were kept in the company, then the only way for a shareholder (who relies on an income stream from investments) would be to sell shares thereby incurring transaction costs.

    Other countries have investment schemes with discounted tax rates on dividends and/or a tax threshold before dividend income is taxed. Certainly until NZ introduces such schemes, imputation at least tries to address double taxation on the income from NZ shares.

    A few years old:
    https://www.interest.co.nz/business/...reholders-says
    I'll try to keep this short as it's off topic. I completely agree on the reasons for the imputation credit, which avoids double taxation. Canada addresses this via a dividend credit directly to the shareholder on their tax return. But eitherway, i'm not buying this argument one bit. You have critics that have been very vocal against Warren Buffet why he doesn't pay dividends in Berkshire Hathaway because quite simply, they don't know better. This is not to rain against issue dividends because Buffet collect a heap of dividends. His view is simply again, not tax efficient and encourages the companies that Berkshire hold to retain profits for use in EXPANSION to maintain growth. Otherwise if there's no growth then dividend payment is acceptable.

    If you really want an income stream, then choose a different asset class. But to assume these NZ listed companies to have an expectation to pay dividends? No matter if they're in a growth stage or mature type of company say like utilities (huge lack of distinction). It's prevalent entirely through NZ's finance industry ; NZ brokers such as MacQuires giving out their investment approach that focus on dividends and .. none other. No wonder companies like Xero have left the NZX. On the US front, US brokerage firms are shutting out access to the NZX because of the NZ gov'ts FMA. Then I hear liquidity in the NZX is drying up. Should be interesting to see where the NZX will be in 10 years. Wouldn't be happy to be holding Kiwi Saver focused solely on NZ listings.

  2. #132
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    Companies such as Xero May also have left NZ owing to the fact that the available capital has been limited - pension funds have such a comparatively small investment footprint here and households stuff their assets into residential housing.

    Obviously with shares, there are types of companies and sectors where dividend streams are available, as in overseas markets. No income stream is 100% certain, just as with fixed interest stock and residential rents. Risk assessment is a requirement for all investments, businesses and even in selecting a salaried position.

  3. #133
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    A Christmas Carol - a modern NZ version:

    When one person's investment is another person's home....

    New Zealand's rental market: What's really happening?

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/118364208/new-zealands-rental-market-whats-really-happening

  4. #134
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    What's really happening? Look beneath the sad Christmas stories. The current government has changed the rules, and has announced yet more changes.

    Equal and opposite reaction?

    Note that the tenants who have to leave all say cannot find a new rental. Funny that.

  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemis View Post
    What's really happening? Look beneath the sad Christmas stories. The current government has changed the rules, and has announced yet more changes.

    Equal and opposite reaction?

    Note that the tenants who have to leave all say cannot find a new rental. Funny that.
    Tales of woe are of course more poignant at Christmas-time.
    About time for changes?...Also look behind the stories from badly-done-to Landlords.

  6. #136
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    I tend to think tenants should have permanent tenure if they want it.
    That would make landlords think more about what they are doing, profiting off others fundamental requirements. Hey I'm not against it but landlords need to commit!

    However, it should be quick and easy to remove if genuine reason such as damage or arrears or anti-social activities etc.
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by peat View Post
    I tend to think tenants should have permanent tenure if they want it.
    That would make landlords think more about what they are doing, profiting off others fundamental requirements. Hey I'm not against it but landlords need to commit!

    However, it should be quick and easy to remove if genuine reason such as damage or arrears or anti-social activities etc.
    Nothing to stop you offering permanent tenure to a tenant if you want to. Just don't expect others to.

  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    Nothing to stop you offering permanent tenure to a tenant if you want to. Just don't expect others to.
    Correct, and in practice it happens often. The new termination rules announced by Minister Faafoi pretty much have that effect, with only limited reasons to terminate a tenancy. By the asset owner, that is. Tenants can pretty much leave when they like. He may walk some of the new rules back a bit, though no sign of that yet.

  9. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    Nothing to stop you offering permanent tenure to a tenant if you want to. Just don't expect others to.
    I've never wanted to be a landlord despite acknowledging its massive benefits, and I may be labouring the point a bit I guess but what I'm saying is that it should be mandatory that a tenant can stay as long as they like and landlords should know this and learn to live with it.
    It can still be sold of course! As a going concern and income stream. So nothing really changes for those truly wanting an income stream.
    I agree its a bit draconian but it would sort the housing market out

    Edit: To me right of tenure is a fundamental human right bugger all this right to internet or whatever, but having a roof over ones head goes to the absolute bone (with me) in the sense that it destroys the soul if its not there. You have to pay for it of course and quick punishment and eviction if you don't. That would be my trade-off , absolute severity in this area with legal enforcement easily available etc.

    <end rant>
    Last edited by peat; 22-12-2019 at 02:13 PM.
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  10. #140
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    Right of tenure is set to take a big step forward here. If this continues then I think we will see a change in the mix of landlords. State subsidised social housing will have to increase rapidly, and there will be the rise of corporate residential landlords and the drifting away of landlords with only one or two rentals. An apartment building of rentals only, corporate ownership, has been discussed recently and is common overseas.

    Consider the consequences. Social tenants will have right of tenure pretty much because if they are trouble who else will take them? Corporate landlords will follow the rules to the letter and take no prisoners. They will be resourced to do just that. Sad stories will not wash.

    Plus a flood of freed up funds into other investments.

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