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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemis View Post
    Suggest take Oxfam reports with a big spoon of salt. They have an agenda. They, and many journalists that create the headlines, are regularly smacked by some who compare the base data Oxfam use (from the Credit Suisse highly regarded global wealth report) with the Oxfam conclusions. And the headlines.

    Credit Suisse 2018 reports show that New Zealand’s wealth inequality declined from the previous year’s 72.3 Gini points to 70.8 Gini points. Don't see that in the headlines, probably not reported at all here.

    Kool-Aid.

    And even if the 28% is correct, Oxfam includes NZ billionaires from the Forbes annual list. Because it supports their agenda and keeps the donations rolling in.
    Sure they have an agenda. Who doesn’t? Using the same facts and information, different people offer different conclusions. So we need to look at vested interests, what has been ignored and and who pays those that offer different conclusions.

    One Oxfam agendum is to strive for a fairer allocation of resources. I wonder how NZ is faring in 2020.
    The world is full of vested interests and Government policy is usually the result of the most powerful and influential vested interests. Suggest we should critique those who rubbish Oxfam too.

    Oxfam answers some questions:
    https://www.oxfam.org.nz/news-media/...uality-report/
    Last edited by Bjauck; 21-01-2020 at 03:38 PM.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    Sure they have an agenda. Who doesn’t? Using the same facts and information, different people offer different conclusions. So we need to look at vested interests, what has been ignored and and who pays those that offer different conclusions.

    One Oxfam agendum is to strive for a fairer allocation of resources. I wonder how NZ is faring in 2020.
    The world is full of vested interests and Government policy is usually the result of the most powerful and influential vested interests. Suggest we should critique those who rubbish Oxfam too.

    Oxfam answers some questions:
    https://www.oxfam.org.nz/news-media/...uality-report/
    Completely agree - a lot of the reports don't factor important variables and many can't be simply quantified in figures. Like how do you quantify a person's reason of living in NZ because the climate is better? How do you quantify the living comfort of a Canadian built home despite having a high carbon foot print?

    An equally justifiable reason. Why is it at uni (well at the time I attended) the profs were out to fail everyone? I mean when I attended uni in Canada, having 50% of the students fail in finance classes was the norm. So what does that mean for the top 1% in the class? Why should they get better recognition? I feel this is the same argument how the media points a bad finger at the 1% owning a high % of wealth. Is it not they should be rewarded for their ability? How else do you address inequality because when I was grade school, I saw a lot of students that were not equal and simply didn't make the cut. It's a double standard we have in society ; ok for the poor to receive benefits and bash the rich, but when it comes to education, let's bash the weak and praise the top grads.

    As far as CGT in NZ goes. Well our gov't will never be serious about it as long as they have a vested interest in real estate. Certainly not with NZ 1st and Winnie Peters. However, I often wonder why the TWG never considered options in implementing CGT in tranches? This is nothing and has been done in Canada for as long as I can remember. At times the CGT was 75% of the gain became taxable income. Then dropped to 50% of the gain becomes taxable. There's also exemptions to certain special assets. Even Bush made exemptions for US farmers to have their land exempt from CGT. I see NO reason why the NZ gov't couldn't do the same. Perhaps over 5 years implement the CGT SLOWLY so it doesn't have a hard impact on investments.

  3. #163
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    SBQ - I think I am on the same page as you in relation to a CGT. However I am not sure about the rest of your post. It seemed somewhat contradictory to me. I have to say I got lost when you said some students "were not equal." I agree that skill in a particular subject, academic ability and intellectual function is not the same for everyone.

    Apart from on CGT, we may have to agree to disagree.
    Last edited by Bjauck; 22-01-2020 at 10:15 AM.

  4. #164
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    Doesn't seem like much CGT for all those audits
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/118...3+January+2020

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiora View Post
    Doesn't seem like much CGT for all those audits
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/118...3+January+2020
    $12.5mill taxes or $37.8mill in profits (assuming the top tax rate) possibly closer to $50mill. assuming an average of 25% tax rate for one year.

    Better than a kick in the pants.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiora View Post
    Doesn't seem like much CGT for all those audits
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/118...3+January+2020
    Which goes to show that the tax laws in NZ are not on a fair playing field. As a matter of comparison, in Canada when you purchase property you have to disclose to the lawyer / conveyance person why you're buying it? there's a tick box list of things like 'your 1st home', 'vacation home', non-resident home, and many others. NZ's taxing of property speculators is no different than in Canada. Actually there are 3 major categories that the tax authority views on house / land purchase. If you're in the business of dealing with buying and selling real estate, then of course the gains on the sale of your assets (the houses) will be taxed at same business income rates (no different to in NZ). If you bought the house as an individual and it turns out you're in the building trade, then the gains would be classed as regular individual income tax rates. If you bought the house and made improvements to the house in a renovation, then the 'adjusted cost base' would have to be changed and the house would get revalued for taxation and of course, the intent is the key ; auditors will ask did you renovate with intention to sell? If so, then the gains on the sale will be at capital gains rates. So what i'm getting at is what IRD has done is they have not spelled out clearly (as in that article) what is taxable when making gains on the sale of property. Too many loops holes in my opinion because something like this would never happen in Canada ; they don't even have such a brightline test criteria - the declaration status is determined at the time of purchase and at time when the house is sold.

    @ Bjauck:

    What I was getting at is at school, the smart students that do so well (and of course work hard) are well rewarded and those that fall behind... they just get left in the corner. But in the realm of investments in NZ, it's only those that have the $ are the ones that can take advantage of buying NZ residential properties and be able to sell near retirement with tax free capital gains. Those that are on the low end class status in NZ have only... Kiwi Saver for which is subjected to a lot more taxes throughout the entire investing scheme. That's unfair and that's why Canada addressed this issue decades ago. The rich shouldn't be the only ones that can make $ and 'be advantaged'. Just like at uni, the smart or clever students are the only ones that can get scholarships. It's all wrong.

  7. #167
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    SBQ - I agree with you on the Kiwisaver/investment real estate unfairness in burden of tax.
    Last edited by Bjauck; 23-01-2020 at 08:41 PM.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    $12.5mill taxes or $37.8mill in profits (assuming the top tax rate) possibly closer to $50mill. assuming an average of 25% tax rate for one year.

    Better than a kick in the pants.
    Then there are those who ‘voluntarily’ agree to pay tax on their property gains after becoming aware of that audits.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    Then there are those who ‘voluntarily’ agree to pay tax on their property gains after becoming aware of that audits.
    True, because the extension of the bright line test to 5 years was a recent adjustment, I had heard the IRD contacted people to tell them they may have missed something from their tax returns and if you don't want late payment and shortfall penalties maybe you want to revisit your calculations before we audit. The bright line test is pretty cut and dried in many cases so it would be interesting to know how much was voluntarily disclosed after contact from IRD prior to being audited.

  10. #170
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    UN housing expert calls for NZ rent freeze and CGT to end 'significant human rights crisis'

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/h...-rights-crisis

    Does the UN expert realise the electoral hurdle that exists to overcome the entitlement of boomer investors in residential housing?

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    UN housing expert calls for NZ rent freeze and CGT to end 'significant human rights crisis'

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/h...-rights-crisis

    Does the UN expert realise the electoral hurdle that exists to overcome the entitlement of boomer investors in residential housing?
    She certainly hasn't studied the effect of rent-freezes, which has always proved disastrous; even NZ's last rent freeze under Muldoon.

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    She certainly hasn't studied the effect of rent-freezes, which has always proved disastrous; even NZ's last rent freeze under Muldoon.
    Muldoon was a divisive figure?

    Maybe she thought that given the current circumstances in NZ, a rent freeze although imperfect was better than letting the current situation to continue.

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