Retirement village operators

[SailorRob]

What a load of rubbish. Do long term property investors pay tax on any eventual capital gain if the property is sold???

Does a long term investor pay tax on a capital gain when selling their shares???

Answer is "no" in both cases because we don't tax capital gains and we don't have a comprehensive CGT.

Which of your links to the legislation do you think captures the long term property investor. Or business owner selling their business.

Did I ever say that they do??

What they do and what the law states are two different things.

I can't hold your hand through understanding the legislation and clearly you have difficulty in reading.

Not to mention in understanding the definition of an investor.

Long term property investor! What a laugh. What are they interested in the most? The sub inflation cap rates or is it something else?

[Balance]

Did I ever say that they do??

What they do and what the law states are two different things.

I can't hold your hand through understanding the legislation and clearly you have difficulty in reading.

Not to mention in understanding the definition of an investor.

Long term property investor! What a laugh. What are they interested in the most? The sub inflation cap rates or is it something else?

The late Michael Cullen must be illiterate then to recommend a comprehensive CGT in 2019 - since there's already a CGT in place.

You are a fraud, sailor lost at sea.

Thanks for taking the time and effort in enlightening us this afternoon to what a fraud you are.

[SailorRob]

The late Michael Cullen must be illiterate then to recommend a comprehensive CGT in 2019 - since there's already a CGT in place.

You are a fraud, sailor lost at sea.

Thanks for taking the time and effort in enlightening us this afternoon to what a fraud you are.

And I in turn would like to extend thanks to you for showing us just how unbalanced you are.

It is good to see you finally agree and understand.

The late Communist Cullen wasn't illiterate, he was as intelligent as you are.

Call me a fraud by all means, but know that you are also calling Tony and Fiona frauds as well. https://www.buddlefindlay.com/insigh...l-gains-taxes/

Some direct quotes from these esteemed individuals who I would suggest know far more than either of us.

'Many New Zealanders would be surprised to hear that in fact, not many forms of a capital gain are actually left out of the tax net under our current tax laws'.

'Tax on capital gains now applies to a wide range of activities and investment types'

Perhaps I was wrong to call our capital gains taxes 'comprehensive' but using the definition from Tony (not many forms of gains are left out of the tax net) I chose to use the term comprehensive.

You'll never get that money back Balanced, stupid is as stupid does.

[Balance]

And I in turn would like to extend thanks to you for showing us just how unbalanced you are.

It is good to see you finally agree and understand.

The late Communist Cullen wasn't illiterate, he was as intelligent as you are.

Call me a fraud by all means, but know that you are also calling Tony and Fiona frauds as well. https://www.buddlefindlay.com/insigh...l-gains-taxes/

Some direct quotes from these esteemed individuals who I would suggest know far more than either of us.

'Many New Zealanders would be surprised to hear that in fact, not many forms of a capital gain are actually left out of the tax net under our current tax laws'.

'Tax on capital gains now applies to a wide range of activities and investment types'

Perhaps I was wrong to call our capital gains taxes 'comprehensive' but using the definition from Tony (not many forms of gains are left out of the tax net) I chose to use the term comprehensive.

You'll never get that money back Balanced, stupid is as stupid does.

Sailor lost at sea - you are a fraud. It’s that simple.

[davflaws]

And I in turn would like to extend thanks to you for showing us just how unbalanced you are.

It is good to see you finally agree and understand.

The late Communist Cullen wasn't illiterate, he was as intelligent as you are.

Call me a fraud by all means, but know that you are also calling Tony and Fiona frauds as well. https://www.buddlefindlay.com/insigh...l-gains-taxes/

Some direct quotes from these esteemed individuals who I would suggest know far more than either of us.

'Many New Zealanders would be surprised to hear that in fact, not many forms of a capital gain are actually left out of the tax net under our current tax laws'.

'Tax on capital gains now applies to a wide range of activities and investment types'

Perhaps I was wrong to call our capital gains taxes 'comprehensive' but using the definition from Tony (not many forms of gains are left out of the tax net) I chose to use the term comprehensive.

You'll never get that money back Balanced, stupid is as stupid does.

Balance's opinions on the merits of various stocks are almost always valuable, but he has very strong political opinions and a very thin skin, so once a discussion with him turns septic he stops engaging with the topic and things deteriorate to name calling and eventually just trolling.

If you must keep feeding the troll, this fight would be best transferred to the Elections forum or the Off Market Discussions forum elsewhere on this site.

[moka]

What a dumb statement, nobody would voluntarily pay tax. In the words of Warren Buffet after being attacked in the same manner for suggesting the rich should be taxed more.

The billionaire investor, in the new issue of Time magazine, says he will donate $1 to paying down the national debt for every dollar donated by a Republican in Congress. The only exception is Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell - for whom Buffett said he would go $3-to-$1.

The idea stems from a New York Times opinion piece Buffett wrote last August in which he said the rich ought to pay more taxes. It sparked an instant controversy, with some Washington conservatives calling on the 81-year-old “Oracle of Omaha” to voluntarily pay extra.

"It restores my faith in human nature to think that there are people who have been around Washington all this time and are not yet so cynical as to think that <the deficit> can't be solved by voluntary contributions," the Berkshire Hathaway BRKa.N CEO told Time for an article hitting newsstands on Friday.

I remember when Stephen Tindall signed a letter asking the government to tax the rich more, he was accused by some dhead on here that he was virtue signaling and should voluntarily donate if he felt that strongly.

And to keep with thread I think some people lie about "intention" when selling assets. Although a heavily leveraged property speculator with a rental yield significantly below the mortgage rate and an interest only loan should have to show how many decades it would take to generate a rental profit without relying on capital gain as well.

Agreed a simple as possible comprehensive capital gains tax might be a good idea. It stops turning honest kiwis into liars and always seemed unfair to tax labour but not capital. Although it might make retirement village operators less attractive as an investment.

When you say nobody would voluntarily pay tax it depends how you see tax. I am talking about tax minimisation, avoidance and evasion, rather than Sam Morgan voluntarily handing over to the State a couple of hundred $million from his own capital gains.

I see tax as paying “rent” to the country you are living in. You are paying your way and not freeloading. The people who have benefited the most from the economy should support programs that help the poorest. As Tindall and other millionaires said in their letter “Government leaders must take the responsibility for raising the funds we need and spending them fairly."

Why is it that if you take advantage of a corporate tax break, you're a smart businessman, but if you take advantage of something so you don't go hungry, you're a moocher?
— Jon Stewart

https://soapboxie.com/government/Sho...-pros-and-cons

[Panda-NZ-]

Australia ends up doing a better job of rewarding work over wealth.

Though incidentally both are still doing pretty well.

[Aaron]

When you say nobody would voluntarily pay tax it depends how you see tax. I am talking about tax minimisation, avoidance and evasion, rather than Sam Morgan voluntarily handing over to the State a couple of hundred $million from his own capital gains.

I see tax as paying “rent” to the country you are living in. You are paying your way and not freeloading. The people who have benefited the most from the economy should support programs that help the poorest. As Tindall and other millionaires said in their letter “Government leaders must take the responsibility for raising the funds we need and spending them fairly."

Why is it that if you take advantage of a corporate tax break, you're a smart businessman, but if you take advantage of something so you don't go hungry, you're a moocher?
— Jon Stewart

https://soapboxie.com/government/Sho...-pros-and-cons

Not sure what you are getting at there Moka. All I was saying is that often if you suggest a capital gains tax or increasing taxes on the wealthy some idiot will always chip in with "if you are so concerned why don't you voluntarily pay more tax". No one likes paying tax but most can see the benefit and as long as the same rules apply to everyone most people grudgingly accept it. Once I am wealthy, I suspect I will not champion ideas like capital gains tax and taxing the wealthy as much, hopefully I will be more like Sam Morgan or Stephen Tindall.

Apologies to all those interested in retirement village operators. What happened to macduffy he used to always put me on the straight and narrow if straying off thread topic.

[Balance]

Not sure what you are getting at there Moka. All I was saying is that often if you suggest a capital gains tax or increasing taxes on the wealthy some idiot will always chip in with "if you are so concerned why don't you voluntarily pay more tax". No one likes paying tax but most can see the benefit and as long as the same rules apply to everyone most people grudgingly accept it. Once I am wealthy, I suspect I will not champion ideas like capital gains tax and taxing the wealthy as much, hopefully I will be more like Sam Morgan or Stephen Tindall.

Apologies to all those interested in retirement village operators. What happened to macduffy he used to always put me on the straight and narrow if straying off thread topic.

Kerry Packer said it best all those years ago :

https://youtu.be/DBg7DnQjjcY

Start at 1.28 mins

No need to apologise, Aaron as the introduction of a comprehensive CGT in NZ is well overdue and it must be discussed.

Sure it will have an adverse impact in the short term on RVs. As we know, they are currently paying zero tax on the huge capital gains that they are making on property development by using the Occupancy License structure. In exchange, the RVs are subsidising the huge residential costs of the residents - bit like reverse mortgage in a way except in this case, the RVs take all the capital gains.

In the long term however, a CGT will channel investments in a better structure and a more equitable structure for all concerned.

I believe that the institutional market is already pricing in the possibility of a CGT on RVs as well as a drop in valuations of course.

[SailorRob]

Balance's opinions on the merits of various stocks are almost always valuable, but he has very strong political opinions and a very thin skin, so once a discussion with him turns septic he stops engaging with the topic and things deteriorate to name calling and eventually just trolling.

If you must keep feeding the troll, this fight would be best transferred to the Elections forum or the Off Market Discussions forum elsewhere on this site.

Understood, cheers.