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  1. #1
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    Default BNZ refused to bank my Australian dividend cheque (So did kiwi bank)

    Went to Kiwi bank in barrington, and they refused to take my 156 dollar dividend cheque, apparently they no longer deal with australian cheques under 500 dollars in value.

    Never mind I thought, I will take it to BNZ They do take them, except in my case it seems. I was told that as BNZ was not my main bank, even though I have an everyday account plus credit card and term deposit with them, they would not accept it.

    What is the point of banks if they will not even take a cheque?

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    I’m surprised you can even get a dividend via cheque now. So much easier to just have it paid into your bank account.

    Quote Originally Posted by ratkin View Post
    Went to Kiwi bank in barrington, and they refused to take my 156 dollar dividend cheque, apparently they no longer deal with australian cheques under 500 dollars in value.

    Never mind I thought, I will take it to BNZ They do take them, except in my case it seems. I was told that as BNZ was not my main bank, even though I have an everyday account plus credit card and term deposit with them, they would not accept it.

    What is the point of banks if they will not even take a cheque?

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    Then I think that you need to have an OZ bank account. ANZ here inChch still take my OZ cheques but charge a $15 fee.

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    As from Feb next year Kiwibank wont be involved with cheques full stop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by airedale View Post
    Then I think that you need to have an OZ bank account. ANZ here inChch still take my OZ cheques but charge a $15 fee.
    BNZ from Dec 1st of this month imposes a $15NZD processing fee on foreign cheques. I've always wondered for years why BNZ never had this fee while other banks do? Anyways it's clear in NZ, they don't want to deal with cheques (or for that matter, a paper trail). I've been told by many that places like America are far behind from NZ's 'direct credit' system. But the fact is the reason why businesses in the USA typically do not do international electronic transfers is it's costly - on the order of the same fee as Wire TT - $20 etc. A lot of bank tellers in NZ don't understand the US system and the reasons behind why cheque writing AMONG BUSINESSES is the preferred payment method. It's because the IRS accepts the paper trail and is the cheapest method of doing large figure transactions.

    Main bank or not, it should not matter. If you are a customer and have bank accounts with BNZ, then they should help you. However, it is difficult for tellers to work out the cheque deposit without a foreign currency account. Typically even a "Clean Discount" deposit is difficult enough for most tellers to do. Note Clean Discount applies if you're depositing an AUD currency chq into an AUD currency account.

    You know in the US, checking is so common that banks like Wells Fargo have a smartphone app where you self deposit the check to deposit into your account. Done by the app takes a photo of both sides of the check and the bank processes the data. Limit for Wells Fargo on such deposits is no more than $2,500 per day and $5,000 per month ; ALL with NO FEEs charged on a 'checking account'.

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    Interesting discussion. I see the other day the likes of Google and Apple are developing their own "checking" accounts. Delving into the world of finance is silicon valley, but rather than use technology they are offering checking accounts. Quite the oxymoron, shows how Americans like their cheques.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ratkin View Post
    Went to Kiwi bank in barrington, and they refused to take my 156 dollar dividend cheque, apparently they no longer deal with australian cheques under 500 dollars in value.

    Never mind I thought, I will take it to BNZ They do take them, except in my case it seems. I was told that as BNZ was not my main bank, even though I have an everyday account plus credit card and term deposit with them, they would not accept it.

    What is the point of banks if they will not even take a cheque?
    ASB opened an Aussie dollar account for me for my dividends to go into, no bank charges but I assume they make money if I convert any back to $NZ. I don't think you can use it as in paying for stuff in Australia but cheaper than $15 per cheque for getting dividends, especially if your cheque amounts are as small as mine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by airedale View Post
    Then I think that you need to have an OZ bank account. ANZ here inChch still take my OZ cheques but charge a $15 fee.
    I receive my Telstra (NZ listed) dividends which is paid in A$s directly my NZ Direct Broking account, and the same with Suncorp which is listed on the ASX, the net amount is converted in to NZ$.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ratkin View Post
    Went to Kiwi bank in barrington, and they refused to take my 156 dollar dividend cheque, apparently they no longer deal with australian cheques under 500 dollars in value.

    Never mind I thought, I will take it to BNZ They do take them, except in my case it seems. I was told that as BNZ was not my main bank, even though I have an everyday account plus credit card and term deposit with them, they would not accept it.

    What is the point of banks if they will not even take a cheque?
    I had a similar experience with what I had regarded as my 'main' bank Westpac Ratkin, when I tried to bank an English dividend cheque earlier this year.

    First I need to explain how Westpac deal with overseas cheques. With Westpac, an overseas cheque goes straight into your current account and is available as cash the next day. I think that if you bank a cheque and it is dishonoured, then the cash they have credited you with is clawed back. But the result is there is this window where you can put an overseas cheque in your NZ account, get out the money and 'clear out your account' while the overseas cheque is still being processed. I don't know why Westpac deals with overseas cheques this way. I think the policy is an open opportunity to commit fraud if you were that way inclined. I would be quite happy for the money I have just banked in NZ to remain in escrow while the overseas cheque is cleared. However, that is the Westpac policy.

    Ok here is my story. I presented my English dividend cheque for the equivalent of about $400. The teller was very worried and had to go out the back to discuss with her supervisor. She was worried that from the time I cashed the cheque and the time it was cleared the exchange rate would change and so the bank could lose money (of course the exchange rate could equally well go the other way and they could gain money but this was never brought up). The way banks make money on international cheques is the difference between the buy and sell rates of cheques. This provides Westpac with something like a 500 basis point exchange rate gross profit margin. Typical currency movements over a few days are likely to be within 100 points. What I am saying here is that the bank's argument was spurious. The chances of them losing on the deal in dollar terms was next to nil. Yet they went out of their way to make the deal difficult for me. First of all they said they would charge be a $50 international courier fee. And then after looking at my account they decided to point blank refuse to deposit it. Why?

    My cheque was refused because I didn't have my salary deposited into my bank account. Now I have been self employed for over 25 years, so it has been a long time since my 'salary' was deposited in there. However all my money from my business dealings goes through that account, and it adds up annually to a lot more than the average salary. Yet I was told this money did not count, they were only interested in my 'salary'. Being self employed my monthly revenue does vary. If I am working on a big project sometimes my income for the month is zero, as I do not part invoice jobs. This may have spooked them although I have never got into any credit trouble with my bank. However, that particular month I did have good cashflow and had about $15k in my current account, and I never dip below $5k. Yet I was deemed too risky to do such a transaction. I was more or less told there was nothing to stop me clearing out my account and pocketing the money while the cheque from a multinational company, a lot larger than Westpac I might add, had a high chance of bouncing. They therefore were refusing my cheque. I then told them that if they refused such a transaction I would go out and look for another bank And they said fine, off you go. They didn't seem at all perturbed that they were about to lose a customer of 30 years standing.

    While all this was going on there was a queue of customers behind who were getting agitated at having to wait so long for what I had thought would be a simple cheque deposit transaction. The impression they were being fed was that I was some kind of confidence trickster trying to put one over on the bank and I was left to leave in front of them all in apparent disgrace. I can honestly say this was one of the worst retail experiences that I have ever had, and I will never forgive Westpac for the way they treated me that day.

    SNOOPY
    Last edited by Snoopy; 04-12-2019 at 09:37 AM.
    Industry shorthand sees BNZ employees still called 'bankers' but ANZ employees now called 'anchors'. Westpac has opted out of banking industry shorthand...

  10. #10
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    Recommend that you open a Transferwise account.

    That way you can get a AUS bank account number to deposit the dividends into without all the usual hassles of opening a AUS bank account.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    Interesting discussion. I see the other day the likes of Google and Apple are developing their own "checking" accounts. Delving into the world of finance is silicon valley, but rather than use technology they are offering checking accounts. Quite the oxymoron, shows how Americans like their cheques.
    The reasons are clearer for the American than for the Kiwi. It's far more intuitive and faster to write a cheque than to ask the person to fiddle with their smartphone, by typing in bank account #s (for which adds an element of human error). More importantly, the cheque writing does not require any smartphone that requires access to the internet. It can be conducted in any rural office, country side, you name it. So it's not that Americans like cheques, it's because they IMO find it more convenient. As for myself, I too prefer to conduct business in cheque writing fashion because countless of times when we go around doing business, chasing up owners asking to pay on a previous account in arrears; the #1 excuse they tell us is "Oh I thought I did direct credit on this statement months ago.... i'll have to check with the accountant" So for the business owner that has no intention to wanting to pay a debt, the DC transaction gives them a way to 'fluff' off any creditors. Then you have this Zero accounting / payment scheme just to add another level of guarantee on transactions between businesses...

    I've heard of all sorts of silly excuses from NZ banks about the issues of cheque clearance. I wonder why when Well's Fargo has a simple app that allows the holder of the cheque to 'self deposit' using their app on the smartphone. How does that warrant such a fee of $15 per cheque? Because i'm certain to the bank in NZ, when they clear foreign cheques, they use a similar app and clear cheques in a similar fashion.

    Now as far as retail transactions, rarely cheques are used (in both Canada and the US). Retail transactions have been dominated by electronic credit card swipe payments.

    I'll mention again, in the international business front of sending funds. A wire TT transfer cost by the business owner will cost more than $15 ; to the individual person on the retail front, no one is going to accept this kind of charge. But to the person doing business, well then these transactions are not as numerous and typically deal with much larger figures so the $15 wire fee may not be so much of an issue. But why go to that level and business checking offers FREE checks? When a shop writes us a check in the US or Canada, it costs them nothing. Unlike in NZ, we have a system where banks ding you fees on cheque deposits which no surprise, pushes ALL people towards a common electronic DC way (loss of choice). America has always been about choice and let the people choose what they like vs in NZ, let the NZ gov't ram down what they deem fit for the people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SBQ View Post
    Unlike in NZ, we have a system where banks ding you fees on cheque deposits which no surprise, pushes ALL people towards a common electronic DC way (loss of choice). America has always been about choice and let the people choose what they like vs in NZ, let the NZ gov't ram down what they deem fit for the people.
    Totally agree with your thoughts there. We love giving up our choice here in NZ and love the govt dictating to us what to do, think, eat and consume.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy View Post
    The impression they were being fed was that I was some kind of confidence trickster trying to put one over on the bank and I was left to leave in front of them all in apparent disgrace. I can honestly say this was one of the worst retail experiences that I have ever had, and I will never forgive Westpac for the way they treated me that day.

    SNOOPY
    Yep it a bit like that these days, they all seem very wary, pretty ridiculous considering the small amounts involved.
    ASB is my last hope, have term deposits with them, Three overseas currency accounts and a cash management account, now if they turn me down I will be miffed. Will end up having to tear the cheque up.
    Sold my shares in the company today. Was my only Australian holding that does not pay directly to my NZ bank account, and arranging for it to be done for this company was more bother than just selling the shares

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    Quote Originally Posted by ratkin View Post
    Yep it a bit like that these days, they all seem very wary, pretty ridiculous considering the small amounts involved.
    ASB is my last hope, have term deposits with them, Three overseas currency accounts and a cash management account, now if they turn me down I will be miffed. Will end up having to tear the cheque up.
    Sold my shares in the company today. Was my only Australian holding that does not pay directly to my NZ bank account, and arranging for it to be done for this company was more bother than just selling the shares
    Perhaps i'm missing something but I want to question... WHY are listed corporations either ASX or NZX still issuing cheque payments to shareholders????

    In N. America, this is the job of your BROKER or where you hold your brokerage account. Any shares you own in a company, the disbursements are directly deposited in those accounts. Even in my father's Cdn brokerage account, any USD shares that issued dividends in USD currency, go into his brokerage account with the funds exchanged in CDN currency on that day. I just don't understand why this would be such a big deal here in NZ or in Aus? There should be NO cheque sent directly to a shareholder's physical address.

    An interesting trend I noticed. It seems in NZ the banks are moving away from international services and more particuarly, brokerage services. While in America, i'm seeing the other way around ; just recently TDAmeritrade done a deal to be bought out by Charles Schwab (the latter a full brokerage firm wanting to get into the banking industry that Toronto Dominion offers and an easy leg into the Canadian market). Likewise, there are other brokerage firms looking to make huge acquisitions by buying up a major bank, for the reason to get into the retail banking industry - i'm recalling Goldman Sacs eyeing up E-Trade so they can get a step into retail banking. Again, none of this is talked or thought about in NZ or Australia?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SBQ View Post
    Perhaps i'm missing something but I want to question... WHY are listed corporations either ASX or NZX still issuing cheque payments to shareholders????
    Because the shareholders are the owners, and the owners might want a choice as to which bank they want their dividend cheque deposited into.

    Quote Originally Posted by SBQ View Post
    In N. America, this is the job of your BROKER or where you hold your brokerage account. Any shares you own in a company, the disbursements are directly deposited in those accounts. Even in my father's Cdn brokerage account, any USD shares that issued dividends in USD currency, go into his brokerage account with the funds exchanged in CDN currency on that day.
    You can certainly do the above in New Zealand. However AFAIK all brokers will charge you an ongoing portfolio management fee to do it, albeit at a reduced rate to what they would charge if they were actually doing the managing.

    SNOOPY
    Industry shorthand sees BNZ employees still called 'bankers' but ANZ employees now called 'anchors'. Westpac has opted out of banking industry shorthand...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy View Post
    Because the shareholders are the owners, and the owners might want a choice as to which bank they want their dividend cheque deposited into.



    You can certainly do the above in New Zealand. However AFAIK all brokers will charge you an ongoing portfolio management fee to do it, albeit at a reduced rate to what they would charge if they were actually doing the managing.

    SNOOPY
    No one in this day of age holds shares in 'street form'. They're held by some broker and therefore, it seems sensible the place of holding also manages the disbursements (incoming our outgoing). What other logic is there, other than to want it cleared in a different bank account? Since 'direct credit' is the preferred way of transferring $ in NZ, perhaps the shareholder should go back and change the way dividends are sent out ; and have it deposited in a different bank. I mean how difficult can this be to arrange?

    For NZ brokers, their free structure is the key reason why I refuse to have any such account in NZ (and i'm speaking from a Jack Bogle point of view in terms of long term growth from compound returns) . Can you blame me coming from a N. American model where commission trades are going to zero and no annual account fees?

    Any person asking a NZ broker to manage their account is simply a fool.. they might as well hand them out free $ for sub par performance (for which the brokers are only selling to clients "THE CHANCE" that they would perform better than the market index).

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    Quote Originally Posted by SBQ View Post
    No one in this day of age holds shares in 'street form'. They're held by some broker and therefore, it seems sensible the place of holding also manages the disbursements (incoming our outgoing).
    I don't know what you mean by 'street form'. All the correspondence on my shares come to my 'street address'. My NZ broker holds my CSN number and my FIN (password) number. So I can trade my shares just by ringing them without quoting my FIN number each time. Because my broker has my codes they can electronically check my share balances too. But I am in no way tied to my particular broker.

    I can go to another broker down the road and set up the same arrangement. Brokers do not 'hold the shares' in NZ, unless I ask for their managed portfolio service.

    By contrast the USA based shares I hold are on the books of Computershare USA, who are technically a share register, not a broker. Yet unlike in NZ, it seems I can sell my shares via Computershare USA without the need to go through 'a broker'. Yet Computershare USA will charge me a fee to do this. So I guess Computershare USA is a broker ???!??? I have never sold any of my USA based shares. So not sure in practice how this would work. I think I just have to fill in a paper request on a form printed by Computershare USA and send it off!

    Quote Originally Posted by SBQ View Post
    What other logic is there, other than to want it cleared in a different bank account? Since 'direct credit' is the preferred way of transferring $ in NZ, perhaps the shareholder should go back and change the way dividends are sent out ; and have it deposited in a different bank. I mean how difficult can this be to arrange?
    I suppose you could change the bank account you wanted to pay your dividend payment to electronically. But in my case I didn't want the change to be permanent. Sometimes I would put my dividend cheque straight into my Visa account for example. But if I didn't want to do that I would put it into another bank account. Having a cheque means you can be flexible with your payments without having to change your regular payment details each time.

    SNOOPY
    Last edited by Snoopy; 06-12-2019 at 08:36 AM.
    Industry shorthand sees BNZ employees still called 'bankers' but ANZ employees now called 'anchors'. Westpac has opted out of banking industry shorthand...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy View Post
    I don't know what you mean by 'street form'. All the correspondence on my shares come to my 'street address'. My NZ broker holds my CSN number and my FIN (password) number. So I can trade my shares just by ringing them without quoting my FIN number each time. Because my broker has my codes they can electronically check my share balances too. But I am in no way tied to my particular broker.

    I can go to another broker down the road and set up the same arrangement. Brokers do not 'hold the shares' in NZ, unless I ask for their managed portfolio service.

    By contrast the USA based shares I hold are on the books of Computershare USA, who are technically a share register, not a broker. Yet unlike in NZ, it seems I can sell my shares via Computershare USA without the need to go through 'a broker'. Yet Computershare USA will charge me a fee to do this. So I guess Computershare USA is a broker ???!??? I have never sold any of my USA based shares. So not sure in practice how this would work. I think I just have to fill in a paper request on a form printed by Computershare USA and send it off!



    I suppose you could change the bank account you wanted to pay your dividend payment to electronically. But in my case I didn't want the change to be permanent. Sometimes I would put my dividend cheque straight into my Visa account for example. But if I didn't want to do that I would put it into another bank account. Having a cheque means you can be flexible with your payments without having to change your regular payment details each time.

    SNOOPY
    I want to clarify a mistypo. Majority of brokers hold the shares in 'street form' ; it should not be what I posted before as 'not in street form'. Following link is for clarification and reasons why it's preferable to hold the shares in street form and none other like we see in NZ:

    https://www.finra.org/investors/insi...g-street-names

    Sounds like your example in NZ with your broker conducting the trade is the shares are held under "direct registration" and the company holds the record for it's shareholders. This is different to holding in street form where the broker holds the record and the company only has a registration of so and so broker has this many shareholders on the company.

    Of course the biggest drawback of NOT holding shares in street form is the lack of timeliness of the trade. Say if you choose a different broker to sell your shares, the process doing so (setup account and registration) takes time. Your CompuShare is acting as the registrar of the shares and most likely chooses their 'own' broker in contract to conduct the trade. However, again it's timely to fill out forms and get that information to the broker in time and could take days or a week to execute the trade; worse all, they may not even have 'acounts balances' for their clients - meaning they don't accept dividends ; they're just basically like a real estate agent that conducts the trade by charging a commission but not actually treating their clients like a bank account. Also the verification process is the problem causing delay vs direct online access would avoid such problems. I mean whether a NZ online broker or a USA online broker, there should be no difference in how fast the transaction is executed. But certainly when it comes to receiving dividend payments, I can see why CompuShares would issue cheques because they don't conduct any direct account holdings.

    I can't imagine choosing elsewhere to deposit dividend payments. I mean it could be a recipe for disaster in a tax audit. This is very different to say a personal cheque say a friend owes you money from a past debt where it doesn't matter where you deposit the funds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SBQ View Post
    I want to clarify a mistypo. Majority of brokers hold the shares in 'street form' ; it should not be what I posted before as 'not in street form'. Following link is for clarification and reasons why it's preferable to hold the shares in street form and none other like we see in NZ:

    https://www.finra.org/investors/insi...g-street-names

    Sounds like your example in NZ with your broker conducting the trade is the shares are held under "direct registration" and the company holds the record for it's shareholders. This is different to holding in street form where the broker holds the record and the company only has a registration of so and so broker has this many shareholders on the company.

    Of course the biggest drawback of NOT holding shares in street form is the lack of timeliness of the trade. Say if you choose a different broker to sell your shares, the process doing so (setup account and registration) takes time.
    The lingo I am familiar with regarding this is 'issuer sponsored' or 'broker sponsored', which are the terms used in Australia. I have both 'issuer sponsored shares', for example those I have bought in NZ and shunted over to the Australian register, and 'broker sponsored shares': those I have bought through an Australian broker in Australia. To sell the 'issuer registered shares' I would have to transfer them to an Australian broker. However in both cases these shares are registered in my name. Correspondence comes to my physical address direct from the company. Dividend cheques are sent direct to me at my physical address.

    In NZ the system is different. I would say it would be unusual to not have shares registered in your own name. Yes it is possible to have your shares registered through a broker in that broker's name. But brokers charge a fee for this. Contrary to what you suggest, in NZ there is no delay in trading shares in your own name. The NZ share registers are fully electronic and actual 'share certificates' were done away with a couple of decades ago. So trades are instant either way.

    Yes there is paperwork to go through if you want to sell through a different broker. But this is to sort out terms and conditions with that broker. There is no real need to sell through a different broker though. Even if you are on the other side of the earth, you can simply ring up and trade. As long as the shares are registered in your own name, there is no need to contact the share register at all if you change broker.

    Your CompuShare is acting as the registrar of the shares and most likely chooses their 'own' broker in contract to conduct the trade. However, again it's timely to fill out forms and get that information to the broker in time and could take days or a week to execute the trade; worse all, they may not even have 'accounts balances' for their clients - meaning they don't accept dividends ; they're just basically like a real estate agent that conducts the trade by charging a commission but not actually treating their clients like a bank account. Also the verification process is the problem causing delay vs direct online access would avoid such problems. I mean whether a NZ online broker or a USA online broker, there should be no difference in how fast the transaction is executed. But certainly when it comes to receiving dividend payments, I can see why CompuShares would issue cheques because they don't conduct any direct account holdings.
    If you are now referring to my USA based shares you could be right. I am fortunate that both of the companies I hold now have dividend reinvestment plans. I am finding it easier to just reinvest and compound my dividends.

    At dividend payment time, I am sent a form not only outlining the details of my dividend reinvestment, but with a personalised tear off tab inviting me to submit more funds if I wished to buy some more shares. Yes this means it would probably take three weeks to buy shares (or however long the mail and Computershare USA office processes took). I think I can also ask for my shareholding to be reduced via Computershare USA as well, and that would incur a similar delay.

    I can't imagine choosing elsewhere to deposit dividend payments. I mean it could be a recipe for disaster in a tax audit. This is very different to say a personal cheque say a friend owes you money from a past debt where it doesn't matter where you deposit the funds.
    The tax department have a right to know what I earn. But I wasn't aware they had any say in how I should spend my money! I am not seeking to hide anything by depositing a dividend cheque in my Visa account. I am merely choosing to spend that dividend money to pay off my Visa bill! IIRC is was cheaper to deposit the cheque directly in the Visa account than put it in my everyday account and transfer it from there (a double handling alternative).

    All dividend payments come with an associated sheet of paper outlining gross dividend paid, imputation credits and withholding tax. I believe this information is sent direct to the tax department too. So the tax department have all they need 'in house' to do any audit.

    SNOOPY
    Last edited by Snoopy; 07-12-2019 at 09:16 PM.
    Industry shorthand sees BNZ employees still called 'bankers' but ANZ employees now called 'anchors'. Westpac has opted out of banking industry shorthand...

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