The beginners struggle

[SBQ]

Thought provoking posts SBQ.
Thanks for taking the time.

Not particularly meant to be thought provoking but to give NZ readers the idea how investing and retirement planning and estate planning is done overseas. Yet when this subject comes about at dinner time table, it's either they don't know enough about finance or investing or economics or to even trying to educate the listeners. I often say like I do in this forum, 'why is it NZ real estate treated so different than NZ equity investments? Real estate has a far lower risk and attracts little or no taxes on the gains vs an investor that buys shares takes a huge gamble (more so if invested abroad) and attracts all sorts of taxes (by the managed fund portfolio paying tax on gains annually), on top of the mgt etc.

The real beginner's struggle is to first get educated about different asset classes and then look at the tax implication. Financial advisors and accountants I speak to in NZ are clueless in advising BOTH areas (taxation and financial advice?) whereas where I come from, it's mandatory for any CFA or financial planner to have a thorough knowledge about taxation from their client's point of view. The rubbish I hear in NZ is these advisors 'won't advise on anything on the issue of taxes' and say we can gladly arrange a tax specialist for a proper assessment. This is so wrong when at the end of the day, what matters to the client that invests their hard earn money is "what's their REAL return", and not some fudged figure people can see in a prospectus saying they would have sum $x,xxx,xxx.xx in 20 or 40 years.

https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showth...l=1#post818260

Originally Posted by percy
What I should have mentioned is that these initiatives are being funded by the company's strong balance sheet and excellent cashflow,WITHOUT having to come to shareholders for further funds.I take this as very positive,means management are looking to make profits to fund growth.Most small company's think the only way they can grow is to fund growth with more money from shareholders.This dilutes your shares,and takes management's mind off making real profits.So well done PAZ.
My second post on this thread.My third post on 23-04-2011 I stated I brought 80,000 PAZ at 3.5 cents.
Reflecting back on the years,I think I kept doing the right things.ie.
1] Buy a few shares to get to know the business.
2] Make sure the balance sheet is strong,mainly cashflow positive, and current assets far exceed current liabilities.
3]Watch the company to see if they do as they say they will do.
Then I just kept adding to my/our holding on each positive announcement.
A good lesson to me that we all know;And KW always told us:Sell your losers and add to your winners.That usually means buying your winners at higher and higher prices.
Our last purchase of PAZ was 50,000 at 25 cents, for the wife, on 15th April.At lot higher than the original 3.5 cents I paid.So added to our big winner,and have sold other shares in other companies over the years,some at a profit and a few at a loss.Whenever the story, or the reason you brought a share changes,SELL.
Thank you to all of you who have thanked me, and joined the fun.I guess we are all "well positioned."..lol.
I think most Sharetraders will realise our PAZ holding far exceeds what I expected our total share portfolio would be.

re: iceman " It describes how millionaires are made in this game. "

Doing some simple math in Percy's position in PAZ (now I must admit, he lucked out and I can't speculate how many shares he owns in this company). But from what he's mentioned in that post, it's certainly not how millionaires are made.

80000 shares @ $0.035 = $2,800
50000 shares @ $0.25 = $12,500

As a general rule I do not follow NZX listings and the last time I did ever look at any particularly company listed on that exchange, the biggest problem I found is the lack of volume for any person with a large position to move in or out. So when you say in this game that's how millionaires are made, the first thing that comes to my mind is if a person had $1M in cash, what impact on the price of the shares would it have by buying that much? Likewise if you had $1M in PAZ shares, what impact would the share price have if you tried to move it all out at once? Because the way I look at how NZ brokers operate, they cream you by doing frequent trades, they get more commissions from buy / selling in tranches.

If you had $1M in any S&P500 listed company in the US exchanges, ALL 100% of $1M would be bought or sold in a blink of an eye and not a bat would happen to the share price. Just set your limit order and you're away.

BTW, from an investment point of view, the millionaires i've met in NZ have all done it by owning NZ real estate. (i'm not speaking of those that made their wealth from owning a successful business). Yet, i've yet to come across 1 person that has made millions purely by investing on the NZX (and let's not speak about those that started with a huge position).

[percy]

You missed "Then I just kept adding to my/our holding on each positive announcement."
So brought from 3.5 cents up to 25 cents.
I would suggest you read the whole PAZ thread.

ps.The more research I do the luckier I become..lol.

[iceman]

SBQ, you are completely wrong in your highlighted criticism of my post. I'm not guessing. I'm stating a fact that was meant as an interesting reading for "newbies" this thread was started for.

[winner69]

SBQ, you are completely wrong in your highlighted criticism of my post. I'm not guessing. I'm stating a fact that was meant as an interesting reading for "newbies" this thread was started for.

Seems some are their own worst enemy

[RGR367]

.........................

BTW, from an investment point of view, the millionaires i've met in NZ have all done it by owning NZ real estate. (i'm not speaking of those that made their wealth from owning a successful business). Yet, i've yet to come across 1 person that has made millions purely by investing on the NZX (and let's not speak about those that started with a huge position).

I can assure you that I know several members of the NZSA have got millions due to their NZX investments. And you don't need to question whether you can really make millions by investing on just NZX alone.

[kiora]

You missed "Then I just kept adding to my/our holding on each positive announcement."
So brought from 3.5 cents up to 25 cents.
I would suggest you read the whole PAZ thread.

ps.The more research I do the luckier I become..lol.

Great effort for a book seller

[Snow Leopard]

....whereas where I come from....

I really wish that you would go back there.

[justakiwi]

I really wish that you would go back there.

[blackcap]

Where SBQ comes from is absolutely irrelevant in this discussion. And if you want immigrants to go back "home" there are other websites you can pontificate on.

As to his/her argument about tax it certainly is valid. Financial advisors should know tax laws (even in NZ) and be able to advise clients on tax implications. People underestimate the effect that poor tax planning has on portfolios and wealth. To be fair though, I studied tax and estate planning at postgrad level so the qualifications are out there. Whether these are mandatory for financial advisors is another matter but some rudimentary knowledge certainly IMHO should be.

[justakiwi]

It’s not about actually wanting SBQ to go home, and you know that. I welcome anyone into this country, as a visitor or a permanent immigrant, regardless of race or culture or gender or whatever else. But SBQ is constantly running down my country, and criticising our tax systems. He doesn’t have to like how we do things here, but he knew what he was getting into when he came here. So, I make no apologies for sometimes feeling and voicing “if you don’t like it here, maybe you should go back to the country you were apparently much happier in.”

Where SBQ comes from is absolutely irrelevant in this discussion. And if you want immigrants to go back "home" there are other websites you can pontificate on.

As to his/her argument about tax it certainly is valid. Financial advisors should know tax laws (even in NZ) and be able to advise clients on tax implications. People underestimate the effect that poor tax planning has on portfolios and wealth. To be fair though, I studied tax and estate planning at postgrad level so the qualifications are out there. Whether these are mandatory for financial advisors is another matter but some rudimentary knowledge certainly IMHO should be.