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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snow Leopard View Post
    Sorry ma'am, won't do it again.

    Apart from moving to Canada where things are so much easier then at the end of the day you are going to have to invest time into learning and analysing companies from the perspective of your investment or trading style, putting some real money* where you conclusions say good value is and then see how it works out for you.


    Some you will win and some you will lose, both ways you will learn by actually doing it and having money in the market.

    You see how it goes and adapt with experience.


    *If I remember correctly you can buy small $$ of shares with low brokerage
    I'm speaking for both sides of the fence which is relative to the topic in discussion. The novice NZ investor is simply at a disadvantage to investing shares when compared to those living abroad. Furthermore the investing approaches abroad differs to NZ and a lot of that is due to taxation. Another is NZ preference to dividend income on share investment vs overseas prefer capital gains. If you can't get past this distinction, then you'll find all the effort put into investing shares (from a NZ perspective) would of gone to a waste of time and I mean you can study up all the fundamentals on a NZ listed company or try to look smart by using technical analysis on NZ shares and at the end of the day, you're worse off than buying a 2nd house. Sure there are winners and losers in any game... but you simply can't have a 'fair' game if the playing / (investing environment) is not on a fair level playing field. Earlier in the year I applauded for the WTG in NZ to tell the NZ gov't that capital gains tax should be brought in to NZ. It was the single only chance to level the playing field. But oh no, you have politicians (especially in the NZ 1st and National Party camp) that have huge investments in real estate and frankly, they're not going to welcome a CGT on their investments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tronald Dump
    SBQ, to be clear, there is NO capital gains tax on PIE funds, whereas there definitely is a tax on investment property gains if you sell within 5 years. You also (of course) pay income tax on the rental income from property, just like you pay income tax on dividends from shares or funds.
    You realise why the PIE funds came about? It was to address the tax inequality that managed funds faced when they were trying to roll out Kiwi Saver. We don't have to mention the absence of CGT because in the NZ share investment field, portfolios are subjected to something worse which is the FIF regime I keep describing. Look at the significance of share investing in NZ when you see companies like Xero leaving the NZX saying they want a wider market exposure ; while during this process, NZ investors holding Xero shares would be wacked with FIF. Is this the example we should be looking at for existing NZX companies - 'pick a winner where the long term result is they go off shore' ?

    I do not believe there is much data showing those that have sold houses in less than the 5 year brightline test. You know investment criteria for retirement planning is not 5 years and certainly no one has lost a lot of $ in real estate if they held longer than 5 or 10 years.

    The PIE funds do give investors in the top income tax bracket a 5% break ; pity it leaves nothing of a benefit to the small guy.

    @ justakiwi : Since you're dealing with small sums, I welcome you to keep looking at high quality stocks with long future potential, typically those on the S&P500. If you can return a decent sum on your investment, be sure to keep it under $50,000 NZD which is the threshold before FIF kicks in. Hopefully you cash out the gains and put them towards something better like into your 1st home mortgage. FYI, in 2019 my portfolio did over 30% which is inline with the returns that the S&P500 and DOW index did last year:

    https://dqydj.com/2019-sp-500-return/

    What is the the NZ gov't doing to boost the NZ share market? The only thing I see being boosted in NZ is prices in the NZ real estate.

  2. #22
    percy
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    Here we go Justakiwi.
    Read the latest annual report.
    Should the chairman's outlook sound poor read no more.If you can not understand what the chairman is saying,read no more.
    Should it be positive read the balance sheet.
    Look to see current assets are twice current liabilities.
    Take out intangibles and goodwill from assets.
    Then see what the equity ratio looks like.That is shareholders equity divided by total assets [less intangibles and goodwill]
    Some business such as a retailer or manufacturer you want the equity ratio near 50%.
    Finance company,bank. or property company an equity ratio of 13% to 30%.Note each industry has different requirements,so compare apples with apples,ie companies in the same sector.
    Cash flow from operations should [must] be positive.
    At the very end of the annual report you will find a list of major shareholders.Check the directors have sizeable shareholdings.
    Make a record of why you are investing in the company.If the reasons change decide whether to hold or sell.
    Buffett says he gets 6 out of 10 right.So hang onto winners and sell losers.
    Jim Slater "The Zulu Principle" says sell at first bit of bad news......Google The Zulu Principal by Jim Slater and read about it.[investing]
    Always read company presentations and compare what they achieve against them.
    Invest only in companies that do as they say they will do.
    Take responsibility for all your investment decisions.Ignore Sharetrader noise.
    Buy to hold forever.
    I try to base my own decisions on facts ie announcements.February I will be watching announcements closely.And will decide my course of action accordingly.
    If I do not understand anything in a company's announcement, I ring and seek clarity.CEOs CFOs are happy to talk to you so long as you ask sensible questions.
    Last edited by percy; 13-01-2020 at 05:25 PM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    I suppose I did sound a bit like a (school) ma’am

    Yes, I’m investing $40 a week via Sharesies currently, which is small bikkies for most people, but I’m feeling pretty good about what I’ve achieved so far in terms of building my little portfolio. At just under 19% returns for 2019 (calendar year) my money is working a heck of a lot better for me than it was sitting in the bank. I am an investor - not a trader, so happy to be patient and see how it all unfolds. Doing heaps of reading, listening to podcasts, learning from others in various forums and so on. I guess for me, the analysis and interpretation of annual reports/financial reports, is where I struggle. Some companies are better than others at putting those things together in a way that novices can understand. It’s a learning curve. I thought there might have been some online courses available, but so far, I haven’t been able to find any.
    No worries .

    Investing regularly is a good bit of discipline and no amount is to small.
    So that $2080 per year is being invested in what? (sorry if you have already said somewhere) Index funds or individual shares?
    Is the 19% your calculation or sharesies?

    Not sure that you need to do a major in adding up to read the accounts.
    I doubt most people read the small print but you should learn the basics of P&L, Comprehensive Income, the Balance Sheet and the Cash Flow Statement.
    om mani peme hum

  4. #24
    Guru justakiwi's Avatar
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    At the risk of embarrassing myself/looking like an idiot ... I currently hold:

    KFL - my largest holding as I purchased these in 2016.
    BRM
    MLN
    HGH
    USF
    BLT (yes, I know I shouldn’t have, but I did anyway - my only “take a chance” highly speculative holding, which I won’t be adding to for now)

    Total portfolio value is just under $5000. Not planning to buy anything new now. Focusing on building on what I have for now. And before the anti-Fisher/Carmel brigade get onboard - yep, I know their fees are high, but their dividend frequency and DRP have been awesome for me. I have not purchased any new shares in KFL since I bought them (although I did exercise warrants last year), but my holding has increased considerably simply because of DRP. It is a very good way for small investors to increase their holdings without spending any further capital.

    I use Sharesight to monitor everything in one place - the 19% is their return (most of that return is KFL for obvious reasons)

    Feel free to rip it to shreds
    Quote Originally Posted by Snow Leopard View Post
    No worries .

    Investing regularly is a good bit of discipline and no amount is to small.
    So that $2080 per year is being invested in what? (sorry if you have already said somewhere) Index funds or individual shares?
    Is the 19% your calculation or sharesies?

    Not sure that you need to do a major in adding up to read the accounts.
    I doubt most people read the small print but you should learn the basics of P&L, Comprehensive Income, the Balance Sheet and the Cash Flow Statement.
    Last edited by justakiwi; 13-01-2020 at 07:04 PM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by percy View Post
    Here we go Justakiwi.
    Read the latest annual report.
    Should the chairman's outlook sound poor read no more.If you can not understand what the chairman is saying,read no more.
    Should it be positive read the balance sheet.
    Look to see current assets are twice current liabilities.
    Take out intangibles and goodwill from assets.
    Then see what the equity ratio looks like.That is shareholders equity divided by total assets [less intangibles and goodwill]
    Some business such as a retailer or manufacturer you want the equity ratio near 50%.
    Finance company,bank. or property company an equity ratio of 13% to 30%.Note each industry has different requirements,so compare apples with apples,ie companies in the same sector.
    Cash flow from operations should [must] be positive.
    At the very end of the annual report you will find a list of major shareholders.Check the directors have sizeable shareholdings.
    Make a record of why you are investing in the company.If the reasons change decide whether to hold or sell.
    Buffett says he gets 6 out of 10 right.So hang onto winners and sell losers.
    Jim Slater "The Zulu Principle" says sell at first bit of bad news......Google The Zulu Principal by Jim Slater and read about it.[investing]
    Always read company presentations and compare what they achieve against them.
    Invest only in companies that do as they say they will do.
    Take responsibility for all your investment decisions.Ignore Sharetrader noise.
    Buy to hold forever.
    I try to base my own decisions on facts ie announcements.February I will be watching announcements closely.And will decide my course of action accordingly.
    If I do not understand anything in a company's announcement, I ring and seek clarity.CEOs CFOs are happy to talk to you so long as you ask sensible questions.
    Thats a fab condensed nugget in a nutshell percy, i shall endeavour to repost it every now and then like i do KW's basic charting posts about when to buy and sell.
    Last edited by Joshuatree; 13-01-2020 at 07:44 PM.

  6. #26
    percy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    Thats a fab condensed nugget in a nutshell percy, i shall endeavour to repost it every now and then like i do KW's basic charting posts about when to buy and sell.
    Wasn't bad considering the wife kept reminding me to come out and do the dishes.!!..lol.

  7. #27
    Reincarnated Panthera Snow Leopard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    At the risk of embarrassing myself/looking like an idiot ... I currently hold:

    KFL - my largest holding as I purchased these in 2016.
    BRM
    MLN
    HGH
    USF
    BLT (yes, I know I shouldn’t have, but I did anyway - my only “take a chance” highly speculative holding, which I won’t be adding to for now)
    ...
    NZ diversified -- check
    OZ diversified -- check
    US diversified -- check
    diversified diversified -- check

    As for HGH & BLT -- well I hold both.
    Doubt you went wrong with HGH.
    Question is why did you buy BLT? Because everybody else was or do you believe it has legs?
    om mani peme hum

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBQ View Post
    Why not list all the individuals' IRD tax brackets? We have 10.5%, 17,5%, 30%, & 33%. IMO at $70K+ the 33% kicks in is a very very low threshold compared to today's cost of living. FYI, in Canada the 33% tax bracket doesn't kick in until about $215K. (The NZ gov't doesn't understand what 'indexing to inflation' means and that's why we have fixed threshold figures set like they were over 10 years ago). Anyways 33% marginal tax rate is a fair figure making an effective FIF tax rate of 1.65%.
    If you are taxed at 33% in NZ, that rate applies only top the incremental amount of your income over $70k. So it isn't really accurate to say that anyone earning over $70k is paying tax at 33%. You would need to earn around $700k per year to really be paying income tax at a rate close to 33%. You say that your FIF income is taxed at 33%. But you could equally say your income from other sources was taxed at 33% and your FIF income is taxed at a lesser rate.

    Now let's question what the managed Kiwi Saver funds pay under FIF? PIE Fund? Then you will understand it's not as simple as saying the effective FIF tax rate is 0.3 x 5% =1.5%

    The most compelling problem with NZ's retirement planning? It's the fact that regardless of the person's age, IRD's taxes on investment hit people the same as they're young or old. For eg. a person's income in their 30s to 50s is a lot higher than a retired person living in their 60s or 70s. It's a known fact seniors earn little or no salary or wage income. However, the investments they make in a managed fund or owning shares are taxed indiscriminately year after year regardless of the individual's earning status. All because the focus for NZ tax is to get the tax 1st and not worry about taxing at the end where the person can simply cash out their pension fund without paying taxes. This is VERY VERY different to retirement planning in Canada and in the US where investing is all about minimising the amount of tax to pay by deferring the income at retirement age.
    Yes you are right about this. It is not uncommon for overseas countries to have a different tax regime for superannuation schemes that are locked in until retirement. The NZ system taxes superannuation earnings as you go. Since I don't have the option of going to live in the USA or Canada I haven't researched the numbers myself. I suspect you have SBQ. So it would be informative if you were to tell us what happens to 'your' North American pension fund, in tax terms, once you hit retirement.

    One thing certain, the cards are stacked in favour for investing in NZ real estate because of the tax savings (or absence of capital gains tax).
    You are assuming that the ability of NZ property to grow in capital value is the same as the ability of the likes of the NYSE to grow. Even if the tax on NZ property will be lower after 5 years than owning NYSE shares, that doesn't necessarily mean you will be better off investing in NZ property!

    SNOOPY
    Last edited by Snoopy; 13-01-2020 at 09:41 PM.
    Watch out for the most persistent and dangerous version of Covid-19: B.S.24/7

  9. #29
    Guru justakiwi's Avatar
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    To be honest, I hadn’t even heard of them until recently when there was discussion about them on the Sharesies Share Club and the NZX stock Market Investors, Facebook groups. I then saw the discussion here. I had no clue what they were about so spent some time looking over their website, read all the info I could find there, and pretty much typed BLT into Google and read everything that came up. I also emailed them to ask if I there was somewhere I could access/read their published research. They sent me back a long bibliography list of everything that has been published. From there I had to manually search online to locate the full articles - bloody huge job I can tell you! So far I have only had time to find and read about three of them. I would have thought they might be much more easily accessed via the investor centre section of their website, but they told me they can’t provide them there for general (or even investor) access due to rules about promoting their products as “medicines” etc. Still not entirely sure I believe their explanation but have given them the benefit of the doubt.

    Having done that research I feel they may be “onto something” with their products. I’m not necessarily someone who would be their customer, but I do know people are becoming much more interested in seeking out alternative products/probiotics, so I think there will definitely be a market for them, if they can be competitive price-wise. Funnily enough, I went to give one of our rest home residents a cuppa just the other day, and as I sat it on the tray of his walking frame for him, I noticed a sheet of tablets on the tray. I had a look to see what they were (we need to be aware if residents are taking any medications that we don’t know about) - and the first thing I saw was the word “BLIS” - such a coincidence but I thought it was really interesting as it shows that the general public is aware of the products. This fellow is 92, and his family obviously brought them for him. So the market is there and may well be wider than we might think, in terms of the age spread of users.

    Anyway, I tried to talk myself out of it because speculative stock is not really a wise investment for someone like me, but hey .... you only live once and I think it’s worth a punt. Only 5000 shares so never going to make me a fortune, but if it makes me something long term I’ll be happy enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Snow Leopard View Post
    NZ diversified -- check
    OZ diversified -- check
    US diversified -- check
    diversified diversified -- check

    As for HGH & BLT -- well I hold both.
    Doubt you went wrong with HGH.
    Question is why did you buy BLT? Because everybody else was or do you believe it has legs?
    Last edited by justakiwi; 13-01-2020 at 09:17 PM.

  10. #30
    Reincarnated Panthera Snow Leopard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    To be honest, I hadn’t even heard of them until recently...

    ...Anyway, I tried to talk myself out of it because speculative stock is not really a wise investment for someone like me, but hey .... you only live once and I think it’s worth a punt. Only 5000 shares so never going to make me a fortune, but if it makes me something long term I’ll be happy enough
    Wow .

    I am very impressed with the effort and thought you have put into this investment decision.

    Whether you make money on this one or not is a different matter, but I reckon you have the right approach on which you can build your skills and confidence.
    om mani peme hum

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