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  1. #1
    Membaa
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    Angry Very small share parcel buys & sells on NZX

    Well what do you think about the new recent phenomenon of very small, even extremely small share parcel buys and sells on NZX? Personally I find it to be a pain in the admin a$$.

    Today I did a test with a couple of limit buys on two companies for $5000 each in the market. Both limit buys were purposely positioned just one cent under the ask so that I was first in the bid queue.

    One of them finally took up my buy offer after 5 trades over 4 hours, of which two buys were under $10 and three just over $1000

    The other company which is currently somewhat illiquid only bought 1/4 of my bid, 6 buys, one around $25, two under $150, one about $250 and the other $500 - $650. 3/4 of the bid remains on market.

    Both of these shares (on Stockness) also shows trades of $2 during the day, somehow I avoided those but I don't know how that could be as I was the highest bidder.

    I'm assuming I avoided the BOTS somehow but the trades are from Sharsies? Like who would buy a few $100 worth of shares, or even less a $10 buy if they paid ASB Sec or DB a $29-30 trade fee .. no one.

    So I ended up with 11 trades 7 were under $500. Whats this all about? Bloody annoying, imagine someone who had a few $10's of thousand for buy/sale or worse a $100+k buy/sell, they have transactions coming out their wazzooo!!

  2. #2
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    Ahhh progress.
    The brokers are happy, they get their comission for selling $2 of your listing. Very annoying, especially if the SP moves away from your bid shortly there after.

  3. #3
    Guru justakiwi's Avatar
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    Sharesies I suspect. While they generally put in bulk orders for many investors combined, no doubt there will be times where there are only a few orders for a particular share/fund. Some of our orders are small remember (I buy 1 point something USF shares every week )

    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    Well what do you think about the new recent phenomenon of very small, even extremely small share parcel buys and sells on NZX? Personally I find it to be a pain in the admin a$$.

    Today I did a test with a couple of limit buys on two companies for $5000 each in the market. Both limit buys were purposely positioned just one cent under the ask so that I was first in the bid queue.

    One of them finally took up my buy offer after 5 trades over 4 hours, of which two buys were under $10 and three just over $1000

    The other company which is currently somewhat illiquid only bought 1/4 of my bid, 6 buys, one around $25, two under $150, one about $250 and the other $500 - $650. 3/4 of the bid remains on market.

    Both of these shares (on Stockness) also shows trades of $2 during the day, somehow I avoided those but I don't know how that could be as I was the highest bidder.

    I'm assuming I avoided the BOTS somehow but the trades are from Sharsies? Like who would buy a few $100 worth of shares, or even less a $10 buy if they paid ASB Sec or DB a $29-30 trade fee .. no one.

    So I ended up with 11 trades 7 were under $500. Whats this all about? Bloody annoying, imagine someone who had a few $10's of thousand for buy/sale or worse a $100+k buy/sell, they have transactions coming out their wazzooo!!

  4. #4
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    Sharesies now that they are allowing purchases and sales on stocks as well as funds. If I were to put an order in for $100 worth of stock then that order goes to market straight away. I could also put an order in for $10 worth of stock. To be fair its great for new investors that have a smaller amount of money to invest. I wish Sharesies was around when I was a teenager.

    But if you use the "normal" brokers, yes it can be frustrating, but if you don't like it just up the order by a cent, or be a little more patient. Your order should still get filled. Don't worry about the amount of trades it takes.

    But for those starting and wanting some exposure to equities its great. "Brokerage" is very cheap and you only get charged a % and not a minimum. (another reason why very small amounts get traded). The only caveat I have is that you do not get voting rights as you would if you own the stock outright but I have raised this with Sharesies and they say they are looking into it.
    Last edited by blackcap; 24-01-2020 at 10:28 PM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member moimoi's Avatar
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    Baa,

    You are witnessing Algorithmic Trading. Most trading is done by machines these days.

    Those with access to that type of trading software are not paying $30 per trade.

  6. #6
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    I think ASB Securities and Direct Broking need to adapt to the times and change the way they charge brokerage for small parcels and incomplete orders. With bank savings accounts paying far less than the rate of inflation it makes a lot of sense for savers to invest regular small amounts direct into a sharemarket portfolio rather than saving up until they have enough to justify paying the minimum brokerage charged by these brokers.

    As I understand it Sharesies don't need to charge minimum brokerage because they don't have to pay fees to an external registry, but in the future they might offer the option of transfering shares between their internal register and and external register for an extra fee.

    I don't see why the other brokers couldn't do something similar with small or incomplete orders, allowing them to accumulate in an internal register until the customer chooses to pay the minimum brokerage and transfer them to an external register, while larger trades could still go directly tthrough the external register.

  7. #7
    Membaa
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    And to add insult to injury, the full $30 brokerage has already been charged on 6 small sells to my bid totalling only about 1/4 of the bid order.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    And to add insult to injury, the full $30 brokerage has already been charged on 6 small sells to my bid totalling only about 1/4 of the bid order.
    ASB and Direct immediately charge the minimum brokerage on the initial trade. But you already knew that before placing the order. We are all playing in a fully informed market and must adjust our decision making accordingly.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    And to add insult to injury, the full $30 brokerage has already been charged on 6 small sells to my bid totalling only about 1/4 of the bid order.
    You have a month for those orders to trade so your orders may still get filled completely yet, but yeah I understand your frustration with what the likes of Sharesies are doing, a lot of complaints have been made to the NZX but dont think much has been done although they have stopped hijacking ATM upon open like they were doing not long ago.

  10. #10
    Guru justakiwi's Avatar
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    I agree. I get that this might be frustrating but those of us who are trying to improve our financial situations by investing through Sharesies have just as much right to invest as those with bigger pockets. Without the likes of Sharesies we couldn't do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    ASB and Direct immediately charge the minimum brokerage on the initial trade. But you already knew that before placing the order. We are all playing in a fully informed market and must adjust our decision making accordingly.
    Last edited by justakiwi; 25-01-2020 at 06:58 PM.

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