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  1. #16
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    Not sure what fees you are referring to (the annual fee?) but for people like me who can only invest small amounts regularly, Sharesies has been invaluable. Brokerage fees are very low and I don't mind paying the annual fee. Down the track, things may change, but for now I am pretty happy. Nothing is "hidden" by the way. They are very upfront about all fees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewylewylewy View Post
    Not really the theme of the thread, but just a warning on sharesies: I looked at them in depth a while ago and there were a lot of hidden upkeep fees. Seems like an expensive way to buy shares.

  2. #17
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    Yes, I am not against sharesies per se. My daughter has an account, and she is having fun and learning.
    But today I have had enough. Bought four shares in one 3000 CVT trade. Then went to sell 3000 THL, my margin after brokerage in a couple of hours was only $150. As I changed my mind (yes I know) I cancelled the order, before I was notified of a small odd lot parcel was sold. What a pain. Its just messing with me too much. I emailed direct and told them if they dont lower the brokerage where only a small percentage of the order was traded, then I am going to ASB. I understand ASB, has a two tier brokerage minimum rate. Their minimum is $10 I believe. At least its something. I mean it this time, just had enough.
    Last edited by bottomfeeder; 28-01-2020 at 02:39 PM.

  3. #18
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    Direct just advised that if I get clipped, they will be happy to adjust the brokerage. But while it shows some sympathy, I dont want to be contacting them continuously, that takes time and effort. It should be a matter of course and part of their policy. Automatic two tier brokerage charging, say $10 on a trade under $one thousand, and then the balance when it gets above that.
    Still not happy with the system.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    Certainly am not criticising Sharsies per se, or their customer's rights to drop $10 into a share if they want to. It is what it is, it's me that needs to change my trading methods.

    On reflection, my experiment has me thinking that the effectiveness of limit buys or sells has been reduced by this disruptive market trading, especially for less liquid shares. What I mean by that is, with a limit buy/sell I can pay full brokerage and end up with only small portion traded, so for me if I want certainty of a trade I will need to meet the market and execute a trade for the full amount into the bid or ask. If I can't do that I will have to risk paying full brokerage and a partial fill, and potentially ending up chasing the bid or ask later to complete a fill. A more minor point is that I'll probably not continue to record every trade and just record the sum of the contract note, so as to reduce the admin.

    Appreciate everyones thoughts on this, this new phenomenon of very small parcels will imo affect how we go about getting our larger parcels bought or sold. I can't speak for the very large buyers/sellers trying to move $10's or $100's of thousands at a time.
    Hi Ba Ba and others,
    I have complained about this before, particularly when the price moves down or up by a few Sharesies and you run out of time selling - end of month etc, to complete - then to my surprise prices go up or down again. The simple answer if the NZX is going to run this aberation is to allow serious tax paying traders and investors the ability to have a minimum trade to activate a transaction much the same way Etrade did in the US and may still do. The fees for normal trading here are ridiculous with many offshore brokerages now living off their deposit income being re-lent to margin traders and charging zero trading fees - refer Firsttrade USA etc.
    The NZX has tried and allowed many attempt to generate itself extra income - most have and will fail over time and of course drive even more worthwhile investors and traders into other markets or investments reducing market size and liquidity. Seen it all before , the wailing new entrants hoping for a break as we all clamber on lady lucks "wheel of chance". And for sharsie traders - enjoy filing your accounting and tax returns !
    Regards,
    -dodgy

  5. #20
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    Maybe, instead of directing your obvious frustration and bitterness towards us “wailing new entrant” Sharesies investors, you should direct it at NZX/your broker. Oh, and just so you know, trading aside, we are “serious tax paying investors” even if we don’t have buckets of money like you. If you are one of those who believe investing is only for the wealthy, think again. It’s 2020 buddy. Such an arrogant post.

    Quote Originally Posted by dodgy View Post
    Seen it all before , the wailing new entrants hoping for a break as we all clamber on lady lucks "wheel of chance". And for sharsie traders - enjoy filing your accounting and tax returns !
    Regards,
    -dodgy

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    Maybe, instead of directing your obvious frustration and bitterness towards us “wailing new entrant” Sharesies investors, you should direct it at NZX/your broker. Oh, and just so you know, trading aside, we are “serious tax paying investors” even if we don’t have buckets of money like you. If you are one of those who believe investing is only for the wealthy, think again. It’s 2020 buddy. Such an arrogant post.
    Well said justakiwi, we all have been starting out at one point. I remember the frustration when I was a teen/early 20's at not being able to access capital markets because you realistically needed $1000 to make a trade. Sharesies would have been a gift. Also sharesies is helping educate so many more people about capital markets. Long may it continue.

  7. #22
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    Can't see why brokers can't set a two tier, brokerage formula so that if you only trade an odd lot portion, you either pay none or a small amount of brokerage, with the balance charged when the order is fulfilled. I don't begrudge sharesies, and I think its here to stay, and others will soon join. I don't care if I only get 2 shares fulfilled, but if they are dollar shares, I am annoyed that I have to pay $30 brokerage.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bottomfeeder View Post
    Can't see why brokers can't set a two tier, brokerage formula so that if you only trade an odd lot portion, you either pay none or a small amount of brokerage, with the balance charged when the order is fulfilled. I don't begrudge sharesies, and I think its here to stay, and others will soon join. I don't care if I only get 2 shares fulfilled, but if they are dollar shares, I am annoyed that I have to pay $30 brokerage.
    Yeah agree completely, being charged the full broker fee for less than 1/4 of my bid fill was really annoying, and being then abandoned in the market. Anyway I got my fill in the end but only because I met the market to close out the trade.

    I donít really have a problem with the Sharsies effect or the rights of their customers to place tiny orders, my beef is the online brokers taking their full fees on a small % of the bid or ask being filled. Iíve solved the admin of multiple tiny trades by entering only the bulk trade from the contract note.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    I got my fill in the end but only because I met the market to close out the trade.
    I think the answer is right there. If you want to buy 5000 shares then look at the depth and see what price you have to pay to get them all. It may well be higher than if you only want 500. Even without the Sharesies effect this is usually the case.
    I agree its annoying but meh its the modern world where everything is divided a million times and people have a million different views.
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    Maybe, instead of directing your obvious frustration and bitterness towards us “wailing new entrant” Sharesies investors, you should direct it at NZX/your broker. Oh, and just so you know, trading aside, we are “serious tax paying investors” even if we don’t have buckets of money like you. If you are one of those who believe investing is only for the wealthy, think again. It’s 2020 buddy. Such an arrogant post.
    justakiwi,
    instead of emotive terms such as "bitterness" and the assumption of class / wealth try and read the whole post. Of course I expected the reaction I got when choosing my original adjectives and had previously bought this problem to the attention of a broker and the NZX. If you can make money , pay tax, prosper, and enjoy accounting I can only say very best of luck. Despite common belief after many years involvement , I will confirm that luck plays the strongest hand in this endevour. A bit like horse racing. If by chance you do prosper and accumulate you will eventually see the downside when wishing to trade larger more economic parcels. Hence my comment re if desired a minimum parcel should be able to be stipulated by the seller thereby covering his/her trade fee expense.
    Yes , we both agree on 1 thing, it is 2020 and corona aside it will be the best year for some time - past and into the immediate future.
    Regards,
    -dodgy

  11. #26
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    I subsequently sold the THL balance at 287 so covered the brokerage, of the odd lot trade. Direct actually reversed the brokerage on the subsequent sale. So I appreciate Direct coming to the party. I am not blaming Direct. They are like the proverbial meat in the sandwich. But still they are going to have to move with the times and move to two tier trading. Unless the NZX moves odd lot trading to a separate board somehow. Sharesies can buy and sell their own shares. I did write to the NZX to complain, but I got back a real patronising reply, blah blah blah.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bottomfeeder View Post
    I subsequently sold the THL balance at 287 so covered the brokerage, of the odd lot trade. Direct actually reversed the brokerage on the subsequent sale. So I appreciate Direct coming to the party. I am not blaming Direct. They are like the proverbial meat in the sandwich. But still they are going to have to move with the times and move to two tier trading. Unless the NZX moves odd lot trading to a separate board somehow. Sharesies can buy and sell their own shares. I did write to the NZX to complain, but I got back a real patronising reply, blah blah blah.
    Hi bottomfeeder,
    Similar experience with NZX . My question for you (I agree with your sentiments), is whether you think a minimum trade would do the job.
    E.g.
    I have 600 shares to sell/buy and wish to put a minimum initial trade parcel value of say 500 shares. This order typically would not fill until a seller/buyer comes along with an order equal to or greater than 500. It could be the sharesies agregator or any market participant.............but I would be happy knowing my brokerage risk/cost was accommodated and not ending up with less than the 500 bought/sold.
    Thoughts??
    Regards,
    -dodgy

  13. #28
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    That might work. I am sitting there trying to buy 3000 CVT at 281. Some of the order was filled, but now sellers are at 300 but there are sharesies buyers at 288. Can't see anyone dropping to 281 at this stage. Will just have to wait. I suggested to Direct to lift the min brokerage to 35. But if the order is filled to less than $900, the brokerage should be free unless the order is altered or cancelled by me.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bottomfeeder View Post
    That might work. I am sitting there trying to buy 3000 CVT at 281. Some of the order was filled, but now sellers are at 300 but there are sharesies buyers at 288. Can't see anyone dropping to 281 at this stage. Will just have to wait. I suggested to Direct to lift the min brokerage to 35. But if the order is filled to less than $900, the brokerage should be free unless the order is altered or cancelled by me.
    bf
    It used to work just fine in the States..
    -d

  15. #30
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    Maybe the companies should move to percentage based fees. It's not like there is a dude calling the market in background to justify set minimum fee per trade.

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