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  1. #11
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    Not really the theme of the thread, but just a warning on sharesies: I looked at them in depth a while ago and there were a lot of hidden upkeep fees. Seems like an expensive way to buy shares.

  2. #12
    percy
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    I have often brought/sold shares in companies where "bolts" are operating,via my Craigs broker,both in Aussie and NZ..
    I may be buying/selling a 1,000 shares,and Craigs sell 300.I receive a contract note for the 300 traded,with brokerage charged.
    When the other 700 are traded I receive another contract for the 700,and no more brokerage is charged.
    So the "bolts" have not cost me.I take it would be the same at all full service brokers.


    Years ago WDT /Cadac,Aorangi was traded though ShareMart,owned by a share registry.
    They too had a minimum trade fee.
    I had a reasonable buy order in, and they picked a hand full for me.The brokerage came to more than the total value of the shares I was buying.I complained,and was told that is how they operate.To which I advised them their operation was not up to my standard.Never dealt with them again.
    Last edited by percy; 25-01-2020 at 07:46 PM.

  3. #13
    Membaa
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    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    I agree. I get that this might be frustrating but those of us who are trying to improve our financial situations by investing through Sharesies have just as much right to invest as those with bigger pockets. Without the likes of Sharesies we couldn't do it.
    Certainly am not criticising Sharsies per se, or their customer's rights to drop $10 into a share if they want to. It is what it is, it's me that needs to change my trading methods.

    On reflection, my experiment has me thinking that the effectiveness of limit buys or sells has been reduced by this disruptive market trading, especially for less liquid shares. What I mean by that is, with a limit buy/sell I can pay full brokerage and end up with only small portion traded, so for me if I want certainty of a trade I will need to meet the market and execute a trade for the full amount into the bid or ask. If I can't do that I will have to risk paying full brokerage and a partial fill, and potentially ending up chasing the bid or ask later to complete a fill. A more minor point is that I'll probably not continue to record every trade and just record the sum of the contract note, so as to reduce the admin.

    Appreciate everyones thoughts on this, this new phenomenon of very small parcels will imo affect how we go about getting our larger parcels bought or sold. I can't speak for the very large buyers/sellers trying to move $10's or $100's of thousands at a time.

  4. #14
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    Jan 2020
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    New Zealand
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    Quote Originally Posted by percy View Post
    I have often brought/sold shares in companies where "bolts" are operating,via my Craigs broker,both in Aussie and NZ..
    I may be buying/selling a 1,000 shares,and Craigs sell 300.I receive a contract note for the 300 traded,with brokerage charged.
    When the other 700 are traded I receive another contract for the 700,and no more brokerage is charged.
    So the "bolts" have not cost me.I take it would be the same at all full service brokers.
    It is the same with ASB Securities, except that if a partially-filled order expires or is cancelled then brokerage is charged on the incomplete order, and then again on the next order you create to complete the trade, which can be a big problem if only a tiny part of the original order was filled.

    If the customer cancels the order themselves then that is their own problem, but sometimes ASB cancels the order overnight without the customer doing anything, because of something that affects the share price such as the the share going ex-dividend.

    Editing to say: I don't think Sharesies or small parcels are the problem, it is the failure of ASB to change their systems and charges to handle a changing market that is the problem. Sharesies and other fintech startups are developing quickly, and the traditional brokers are just too slow to adapt.
    Last edited by turnip; 25-01-2020 at 08:08 PM.

  5. #15
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    Feb 2016
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    Thanks, Baa Baa for opening this discussion. I'm really fed up with this tiny-trading. I had 5 shares, 1 share and 46 share trades over this week. The NZX needs to get its act together and think up some way around this. Bonds go in tranches of $1000 or $5000. The exponential admin involved must cost heaps.There needs to be some accumulation zone (trading account!) which allows a minimum amount or number of shares to be set.

  6. #16
    Guru justakiwi's Avatar
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    Not sure what fees you are referring to (the annual fee?) but for people like me who can only invest small amounts regularly, Sharesies has been invaluable. Brokerage fees are very low and I don't mind paying the annual fee. Down the track, things may change, but for now I am pretty happy. Nothing is "hidden" by the way. They are very upfront about all fees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewylewylewy View Post
    Not really the theme of the thread, but just a warning on sharesies: I looked at them in depth a while ago and there were a lot of hidden upkeep fees. Seems like an expensive way to buy shares.

  7. #17
    Senior Member
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    Oct 2016
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    Yes, I am not against sharesies per se. My daughter has an account, and she is having fun and learning.
    But today I have had enough. Bought four shares in one 3000 CVT trade. Then went to sell 3000 THL, my margin after brokerage in a couple of hours was only $150. As I changed my mind (yes I know) I cancelled the order, before I was notified of a small odd lot parcel was sold. What a pain. Its just messing with me too much. I emailed direct and told them if they dont lower the brokerage where only a small percentage of the order was traded, then I am going to ASB. I understand ASB, has a two tier brokerage minimum rate. Their minimum is $10 I believe. At least its something. I mean it this time, just had enough.
    Last edited by bottomfeeder; 28-01-2020 at 02:39 PM.

  8. #18
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    Direct just advised that if I get clipped, they will be happy to adjust the brokerage. But while it shows some sympathy, I dont want to be contacting them continuously, that takes time and effort. It should be a matter of course and part of their policy. Automatic two tier brokerage charging, say $10 on a trade under $one thousand, and then the balance when it gets above that.
    Still not happy with the system.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    Certainly am not criticising Sharsies per se, or their customer's rights to drop $10 into a share if they want to. It is what it is, it's me that needs to change my trading methods.

    On reflection, my experiment has me thinking that the effectiveness of limit buys or sells has been reduced by this disruptive market trading, especially for less liquid shares. What I mean by that is, with a limit buy/sell I can pay full brokerage and end up with only small portion traded, so for me if I want certainty of a trade I will need to meet the market and execute a trade for the full amount into the bid or ask. If I can't do that I will have to risk paying full brokerage and a partial fill, and potentially ending up chasing the bid or ask later to complete a fill. A more minor point is that I'll probably not continue to record every trade and just record the sum of the contract note, so as to reduce the admin.

    Appreciate everyones thoughts on this, this new phenomenon of very small parcels will imo affect how we go about getting our larger parcels bought or sold. I can't speak for the very large buyers/sellers trying to move $10's or $100's of thousands at a time.
    Hi Ba Ba and others,
    I have complained about this before, particularly when the price moves down or up by a few Sharesies and you run out of time selling - end of month etc, to complete - then to my surprise prices go up or down again. The simple answer if the NZX is going to run this aberation is to allow serious tax paying traders and investors the ability to have a minimum trade to activate a transaction much the same way Etrade did in the US and may still do. The fees for normal trading here are ridiculous with many offshore brokerages now living off their deposit income being re-lent to margin traders and charging zero trading fees - refer Firsttrade USA etc.
    The NZX has tried and allowed many attempt to generate itself extra income - most have and will fail over time and of course drive even more worthwhile investors and traders into other markets or investments reducing market size and liquidity. Seen it all before , the wailing new entrants hoping for a break as we all clamber on lady lucks "wheel of chance". And for sharsie traders - enjoy filing your accounting and tax returns !
    Regards,
    -dodgy

  10. #20
    Guru justakiwi's Avatar
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    Maybe, instead of directing your obvious frustration and bitterness towards us “wailing new entrant” Sharesies investors, you should direct it at NZX/your broker. Oh, and just so you know, trading aside, we are “serious tax paying investors” even if we don’t have buckets of money like you. If you are one of those who believe investing is only for the wealthy, think again. It’s 2020 buddy. Such an arrogant post.

    Quote Originally Posted by dodgy View Post
    Seen it all before , the wailing new entrants hoping for a break as we all clamber on lady lucks "wheel of chance". And for sharsie traders - enjoy filing your accounting and tax returns !
    Regards,
    -dodgy

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