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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaphod View Post
    Formal advice to the government proposes that the scheme should be extended to those without children as well. A review of the scheme is imminent, so perhaps New Zealand will end up with a very similar scheme.
    LOL - just like the formal advice by the TWG that some sort of CGT should be implemented in NZ - only to be cut down by Ms Ardern in the same week they announced it. What is imminent - NZ gov't is not serious about leveling the playing field.

    There are probably a dozen implementations that the Canadian gov't has done to discourage inequality (all around taxation and mostly implemented in the past 30+ years). What has NZ done in that same period? Bring in Kiwi Saver (which still screws those that contribute to it vs those that buy houses). Bring in Working for Families tax credit? - screws the individual. More money for WINZ beneficiaries? (no program to remove their dependency).

    The only reason why I can shout about these issues and compare to what other countries do is more to do that people in NZ have no idea. The gov't has no idea - they never look abroad to see how similar problems are addressed. They want to reinvent the wheel. Then the OECD year after year keeps reporting that NZ has the highest 'real return' rise in housing prices among the OECD.

    Just the other day I was looking at trusts in NZ and in Canada. NZ trusts are taxed flat rate 33% - but we have no capital gains tax (ideal for owning houses in the trust). In Canada, there's a whole new level of trusts available such as Inter Vivos (while alive) and Testamentary (trusts formed upon the death of a person). It seems in NZ they make no distinction between the two in terms of tax treatment. But in Canada, all Inter Vivos trusts formed are flat rate taxed at the highest marginal tax bracket (because rich people should pay more). There are special trusts like an Hensen Trust in Canada where upon death (testamentary) the settlor in his will creates a trust for the beneficiary who has disabilities. The tax dept will grant a special status to the trust where the trust is taxed at individual rates (which is much lower than the top marginal tax rate in a conventional trust). Seems fair? I think so since people with disabilities should have the benefit. Also Trusts in Canada every 21 years the assets are reassessed and CGT is paid despite the assets have not been sold.

  2. #142
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    Oct 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBQ View Post
    There are probably a dozen implementations that the Canadian gov't has done to discourage inequality (all around taxation and mostly implemented in the past 30+ years). What has NZ done in that same period? Bring in Kiwi Saver (which still screws those that contribute to it vs those that buy houses). Bring in Working for Families tax credit? - screws the individual. More money for WINZ beneficiaries? (no program to remove their dependency).
    I'd like to know if any of these actually worked? I find most policies governments introduce to tackle inequality are extremely ineffective. Then again most of them are just take from rich an give to those that don't know how to work with money.

    I wonder why no government has ever introduced mandatory practical finance classes at schools, that would teach how to use compound interest to build wealth and how to avoid credit card and personal loan debt. My bet is on governments actually wanting to have poor class.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBQ View Post
    LOL - just like the formal advice by the TWG that some sort of CGT should be implemented in NZ - only to be cut down by Ms Ardern in the same week they announced it. What is imminent - NZ gov't is not serious about leveling the playing field.
    The review is imminent, not the Government actually doing anything about it. Modern voters only care about intent, not results.

  4. #144
    Member
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    Aug 2003
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    Tauranga
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    458

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    Quote Originally Posted by SBQ View Post
    LOL - just like the formal advice by the TWG that some sort of CGT should be implemented in NZ - only to be cut down by Ms Ardern in the same week they announced it. What is imminent - NZ gov't is not serious about leveling the playing field.

    There are probably a dozen implementations that the Canadian gov't has done to discourage inequality (all around taxation and mostly implemented in the past 30+ years). What has NZ done in that same period? Bring in Kiwi Saver (which still screws those that contribute to it vs those that buy houses). Bring in Working for Families tax credit? - screws the individual. More money for WINZ beneficiaries? (no program to remove their dependency).

    The only reason why I can shout about these issues and compare to what other countries do is more to do that people in NZ have no idea. The gov't has no idea - they never look abroad to see how similar problems are addressed. They want to reinvent the wheel. Then the OECD year after year keeps reporting that NZ has the highest 'real return' rise in housing prices among the OECD.

    Just the other day I was looking at trusts in NZ and in Canada. NZ trusts are taxed flat rate 33% - but we have no capital gains tax (ideal for owning houses in the trust). In Canada, there's a whole new level of trusts available such as Inter Vivos (while alive) and Testamentary (trusts formed upon the death of a person). It seems in NZ they make no distinction between the two in terms of tax treatment. But in Canada, all Inter Vivos trusts formed are flat rate taxed at the highest marginal tax bracket (because rich people should pay more). There are special trusts like an Hensen Trust in Canada where upon death (testamentary) the settlor in his will creates a trust for the beneficiary who has disabilities. The tax dept will grant a special status to the trust where the trust is taxed at individual rates (which is much lower than the top marginal tax rate in a conventional trust). Seems fair? I think so since people with disabilities should have the benefit. Also Trusts in Canada every 21 years the assets are reassessed and CGT is paid despite the assets have not been sold.
    I'm not familiar with how Canada run things today but I lived up there from 1980 to 84 and was impressed with how things worked. Unemployment benefit which paid well at around 80% of your previous wage but only for 1 year. After that you either worked or ended up begging. Certainly encouraged you
    to find new employment asap.
    The dentist scheme was also impressive. Pay your compulsory annual dental insurance and that was it. No dental bills.
    Perogies weren't half bad either !

  5. #145
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    The biggest mistake made by the current Government (or rather last term) was to cancel the Social Investment program thoughtfully introduced by Bill English after serious study over a decade before he implemented it. He got almost all social providers, including Maori, to buy into it. But because National brought it in, Labour had to cancel it. A big and very shortsighted mistake not to give it a decade or so and the assess the results. I think they may have been surprisingly good for NZ with lower crime and poverty and less inequality. Housing policies on their own will not achieve any of that.
    Last edited by iceman; 03-06-2021 at 01:26 AM.

  6. #146
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    Nats cancelled the NZ super contributions which cost us tens of billions over a decade too. Then sold assets so the dividends are gone.

    Most social support in NZ goes to pensioners for a "health" issue which we should ideally aim to change worldwide, if possible, to free up Trillions.
    Last edited by Panda-NZ-; 03-06-2021 at 09:16 AM.

  7. #147
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    Dec 2001
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    Wellington, , New Zealand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    The biggest mistake made by the current Government (or rather last term) was to cancel the Social Investment program thoughtfully introduced by Bill English after serious study over a decade before he implemented it. He got almost all social providers, including Maori, to buy into it. But because National brought it in, Labour had to cancel it. A big and very shortsighted mistake not to give it a decade or so and the assess the results. I think they may have been surprisingly good for NZ with lower crime and poverty and less inequality. Housing policies on their own will not achieve any of that.
    Completely agree, and that serious study included a whole lot of data gathering and analysis. Labour has sort of retained the Young Parent Payment that provides very specific support for teen parents with a medium / long term view to encourage them not to be long term beneficiaries. 'Sort of' because I hear on the grapevine that it is much less resourced these days - anecdotally, but where are the measurements? Including the effectiveness of the YPP. The few measures I can see bundle the YPP in with the Youth Payment which is not the same thing at all.

    I think the next cab off the rank was to removes the school scattergun decile system and use the funds to target support to the pupils identified as at risk. Hard to argue with that.

  8. #148
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    Dec 2001
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    Wellington, , New Zealand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panda-NZ- View Post
    ..... Most social support in NZ goes to pensioners for a health issue which we should ideally aim to change worldwide if possible to free up Trillions.
    Can you explain what you mean by that?

  9. #149
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    Feb 2020
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    Nelson
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    901

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    I mean stopping aging through developing treatments specifically for it.

    Research into that is cost neutral when worldwide we're spending $10T pet year on it.
    Last edited by Panda-NZ-; 03-06-2021 at 08:28 AM.

  10. #150
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    Feb 2020
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    Nelson
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    https://figure.nz/chart/2eIStXKBWssxMIze

    A helpful infographic on welfare.

    Acommodation supplement should definately be axed, subsidy for the property industry.

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