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  1. #151
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    Panda-NZ - Does this include HNZ, or is that completely apart of this? I'd be interested to know how much goes there.

  2. #152
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    The Income related rents is public housing I think.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by peetter View Post
    I'd like to know if any of these actually worked? I find most policies governments introduce to tackle inequality are extremely ineffective. Then again most of them are just take from rich an give to those that don't know how to work with money.

    I wonder why no government has ever introduced mandatory practical finance classes at schools, that would teach how to use compound interest to build wealth and how to avoid credit card and personal loan debt. My bet is on governments actually wanting to have poor class.
    They DO have an affect and the stats between Canada and NZ prove it with the latter having a much lower GDP/capita. We don't have to look far how much of the wealth in NZ is tied up in real estate. The pillars of house & education is how people in NZ judge their outcomes and creates poor social mobility. It's not about taking from the rich and giving to the poor but rather, it's about not leaving the weakest member of society behind. I'm sadden to see NZ's culture - high # of private schools, wide disparity in cost of housing among the rich and poor. A general lack of philanthropy by the wealthy in NZ. Again key word i'm hitting at is NZ's lack of social mobility.

    My time in highschool (1986 - 1991) in Canada is still very different to NZ highschool today. We had auto mechanics courses all the years (from grade 9 and 10 you had small engine mechanics, wood work, metal work, etc) At Grade 10 and 11 (age 16) many learned to drive a car so they could do auto-mechanics courses. The shop at our highschool had full lifts, cleaning stations, a comprehensive workshop where major repairs could be done like engine pulls and transmissions. In Grade 11 it was mandatory we ALL had to pass doing brake repairs. Likewise, you could not graduate highschool without finishing either Home Economics or the Knitting course (where pretty much all the women enrolled in). Compound interested was taught in Home Economics ; likewise about how banking works, cheque writing, briefly on the stock markets, etc. I suppose if you wanted this kind of level of education in NZ you needed to go to a private school? I dunno?

    Going back to social mobility, I saw in my class everyone who was rich and poor. We had no silly 'school uniforms' and it was apparent you could tell who was rich and who was poor by the clothing they wore. But it did not change our Canadian culture in that no one leaves anyone behind. We chummed with all races, I recall 1 classmate that wore the same clothing all the time with holes in it etc. and we respected that; he was our goalie when we played street hockey. When he got hurt at the goalie net we all helped him up. My closer friends, some were on welfare (NZ dole) and through highschool they were able to break that cycle of poverty. The gov't provided further training after highschool (he didn't graduate) so he could get his ABE (Adult Basic Education) standard as he had an interest in computers. So in order for him to continue on with his computer studies, ABE had to be done. Shortly after, he was recruited by the RCMP (police force) at a time when they were upgraded computer systems for the country. He got a decent paying job there and 30 years later he's retired with a tax free pension (yes RCMP pensions are tax free). If I can see cases like this during my time seeing my children go through here in NZ ; i'll be glad to report. But so far what i'm seeing is the 'haves' send their kids to private schools to get that opportunity. They rather not have their children mix with that lower social-economic group or school in fear it lowers their standard. I dunno but it seems all wacked to me when families are constantly moving house searching from one school to another. I never saw this kind of thing or heard of it growing up in Canada. (mainly on part due to lack or low % of private schools there).

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by ynot View Post
    I'm not familiar with how Canada run things today but I lived up there from 1980 to 84 and was impressed with how things worked. Unemployment benefit which paid well at around 80% of your previous wage but only for 1 year. After that you either worked or ended up begging. Certainly encouraged you
    to find new employment asap.
    The dentist scheme was also impressive. Pay your compulsory annual dental insurance and that was it. No dental bills.
    Perogies weren't half bad either !
    I left (well became non-resident in Canada) in 1998 though I still kept close contact with my friends there. It seemed the very things I hated in Canada at the time have came to NZ. For eg. Canada had limits on foreign content on how much an RRSP (ie like Kiwi Saver) can have - 2/3rds must be of Cdn content / shares etc. They scrapped that. Upon arrival to NZ, there was no FIF or IRD did not tax capital gains on overseas investments. Now they did with FIF attacking all sorts of pension funds etc. During the same period, Canada introduced RDSP (Disability savings plans), RESP (education saving span), and the best of all, TFSA (tax free savings accounts) : ALL with the intent that gains and incomes in those investment portfolios grow 100% tax free when used for the benefit of (well disability, education, & and emergency funding). Anotherwords the gov't there is saying to the people that instead of the gov't nannying individuals on say their disabilities. They want the people to take control of their own investments; all through tax incentives. House affordability problem? No problem. 2 years ago Trudeau passed a new budget for FTHOI program where the Gov't of Canada goes hand in hand with the new home owner in buying the house:

    https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/consu...uyer-incentive

    Key note; they give you 5 - 10% deposit (10% on new builds) and is repayable when the house is sold or in 25 years time. (naturally during that time the house price will rise) but the biggest benefit is there's no skin on the home owner because it's not treated like a bank loan where interest payments have to be made. It's a partnership deal where the rise in house price = home owner benefits + bank of Canada benefits. You think something like this can be done in NZ? Come on Jacinda! The rest of the world is leaving NZ behind in addressing affordability problems in houses, education, and retirement planning.

  5. #155
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    I like canada's bilingualism. The PM often randomly switches to french during a press conference which is nice.
    Last edited by Panda-NZ-; 03-06-2021 at 07:03 PM.

  6. #156
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    Jacinda has a mandate to build houses so should focus on that (with a successful policy this time).
    They don't have one yet for tax change.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panda-NZ- View Post
    Jacinda has a mandate to build houses so should focus on that (with a successful policy this time).
    They don't have one yet for tax change.
    I do not believe increasing the supply of houses will change the direction of house prices going up. The cost of building materials has doubled in the past 10 years and from desperation, architects are left with building boring single story houses with the same kind of cladding and layouts. You know put the garage on the left or right side / rotate it 90deg, that kind of deal. There's no budget to improve the performance of the house such as heating and proper ventilation.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBQ View Post
    They DO have an affect and the stats between Canada and NZ prove it with the latter having a much lower GDP/capita. We don't have to look far how much of the wealth in NZ is tied up in real estate. The pillars of house & education is how people in NZ judge their outcomes and creates poor social mobility. It's not about taking from the rich and giving to the poor but rather, it's about not leaving the weakest member of society behind. I'm sadden to see NZ's culture - high # of private schools, wide disparity in cost of housing among the rich and poor. A general lack of philanthropy by the wealthy in NZ. Again key word i'm hitting at is NZ's lack of social mobility.

    My time in highschool (1986 - 1991) in Canada is still very different to NZ highschool today. We had auto mechanics courses all the years (from grade 9 and 10 you had small engine mechanics, wood work, metal work, etc) At Grade 10 and 11 (age 16) many learned to drive a car so they could do auto-mechanics courses. The shop at our highschool had full lifts, cleaning stations, a comprehensive workshop where major repairs could be done like engine pulls and transmissions. In Grade 11 it was mandatory we ALL had to pass doing brake repairs. Likewise, you could not graduate highschool without finishing either Home Economics or the Knitting course (where pretty much all the women enrolled in). Compound interested was taught in Home Economics ; likewise about how banking works, cheque writing, briefly on the stock markets, etc. I suppose if you wanted this kind of level of education in NZ you needed to go to a private school? I dunno?

    Going back to social mobility, I saw in my class everyone who was rich and poor. We had no silly 'school uniforms' and it was apparent you could tell who was rich and who was poor by the clothing they wore. But it did not change our Canadian culture in that no one leaves anyone behind. We chummed with all races, I recall 1 classmate that wore the same clothing all the time with holes in it etc. and we respected that; he was our goalie when we played street hockey. When he got hurt at the goalie net we all helped him up. My closer friends, some were on welfare (NZ dole) and through highschool they were able to break that cycle of poverty. The gov't provided further training after highschool (he didn't graduate) so he could get his ABE (Adult Basic Education) standard as he had an interest in computers. So in order for him to continue on with his computer studies, ABE had to be done. Shortly after, he was recruited by the RCMP (police force) at a time when they were upgraded computer systems for the country. He got a decent paying job there and 30 years later he's retired with a tax free pension (yes RCMP pensions are tax free). If I can see cases like this during my time seeing my children go through here in NZ ; i'll be glad to report. But so far what i'm seeing is the 'haves' send their kids to private schools to get that opportunity. They rather not have their children mix with that lower social-economic group or school in fear it lowers their standard. I dunno but it seems all wacked to me when families are constantly moving house searching from one school to another. I never saw this kind of thing or heard of it growing up in Canada. (mainly on part due to lack or low % of private schools there).
    Most of what you're describing is just human decency. I went to public school and was one of the poor kids and most of the kids didn't really cared about it too. In last couple of years I realized, school is not there to make you successful, but to make you into unquestioning drone. So when i have kids, I'll send them to public school and teach them the important knowledge at home.


    As far as government policies goes, they might help. Problem in NZ seems to be, there's nobody that has enough intelect in government to actually come up with the working ones...

    Quote Originally Posted by SBQ View Post
    I do not believe increasing the supply of houses will change the direction of house prices going up. The cost of building materials has doubled in the past 10 years and from desperation, architects are left with building boring single story houses with the same kind of cladding and layouts. You know put the garage on the left or right side / rotate it 90deg, that kind of deal. There's no budget to improve the performance of the house such as heating and proper ventilation.
    Incresing suply won't change the direction, but will keep the price increases at reasonable rate. From what I understand, the biggest part of the cost are not materials, but consents and admin. Decrease cost of that and you'll have enough to finally bring 21st century building quality to NZ.
    Last edited by peetter; 04-06-2021 at 10:36 AM.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by peetter View Post


    Incresing suply won't change the direction, but will keep the price increases at reasonable rate. From what I understand, the biggest part of the cost are not materials, but consents and admin. Decrease cost of that and you'll have enough to finally bring 21st century building quality to NZ.
    Costs are similar to a build a house from Auckland to otago so it must be the land price.

    people need to know there's an NZ outside the largest city.
    Last edited by Panda-NZ-; 04-06-2021 at 01:29 PM.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panda-NZ- View Post
    Costs are similar to a build a house from Auckland to otago so it must be the land price.

    people need to know there's an NZ outside the largest city.

    I assumed we're talking about build cost on top of the land.
    Last edited by peetter; 04-06-2021 at 01:58 PM.

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