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  1. #1
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    Question Auckland water supply

    From what I understand the Waikato pipe into the Watercares network was completed neigh on 10 years ago but for some reason it is not functioning , can any one throw any light on the subject. This pipe was to solve all of Aucklands water issues for the next century but here we are 10 years later with water rationing, whatsup ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by whatsup View Post
    From what I understand the Waikato pipe into the Watercares network was completed neigh on 10 years ago but for some reason it is not functioning , can any one throw any light on the subject. This pipe was to solve all of Aucklands water issues for the next century but here we are 10 years later with water rationing, whatsup ?
    I think you need resource consent to take more than a certain amount of water out , & possibly IWI approval & permission .....

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    Quote Originally Posted by stoploss View Post
    I think you need resource consent to take more than a certain amount of water out , & possibly IWI approval & permission .....
    No doubt all this is being taken care of as we wait.....


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    Quote Originally Posted by stoploss View Post
    I think you need resource consent to take more than a certain amount of water out , & possibly IWI approval & permission .....
    Iwi have a lot to answer for in NZ. Gravy opportunities where they can and they do so much harm and stop business along the way. The sooner the pandering to Iwi and other groups is stopped the better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    Iwi have a lot to answer for in NZ. Gravy opportunities where they can and they do so much harm and stop business along the way. The sooner the pandering to Iwi and other groups is stopped the better.

    Supplying water to Auckland

    • Since 2002, the Waikato River has been part of Auckland’s water supply network, providing an average of 136,000 cubic metres of water to the region each day.
    • Over the past 12 months, water from the Waikato accounted for around 33.3% of Auckland's total water supply.
    • We currently have resource consent to take up to 150,000 cubic metres per day from the river.

    https://www.watercare.co.nz/Water-an...es-from/Rivers


    Since 2002 the Auckland population has burgeoned. It is not just the consent processes process or IWI that are at fault. It is that NZ and Auckland have failed to plan sufficiently to provide the services and infrastructure for that population growth.

    Auckland population:
    2002. 1,255,800
    2019. 1,642,800

    That is an increase of just over 30% in 17 years. Don't pin all the blame on iwi for Her Majesty's NZ government's failure to adequately plan for population growth.

    Last edited by Bjauck; 08-05-2020 at 11:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    Supplying water to Auckland

    • Since 2002, the Waikato River has been part of Aucklandís water supply network, providing an average of 136,000 cubic metres of water to the region each day.
    • Over the past 12 months, water from the Waikato accounted for around 33.3% of Auckland's total water supply.
    • We currently have resource consent to take up to 150,000 cubic metres per day from the river.

    https://www.watercare.co.nz/Water-an...es-from/Rivers


    Since 2002 the Auckland population has burgeoned. It is not just the consent processes process or IWI that are at fault. It is that NZ and Auckland have failed to plan sufficiently to provide the services and infrastructure for that population growth.

    Auckland population:
    2002. 1,255,800
    2019. 1,642,800

    That is an increase of just over 30% in 17 years. Don't pin the blame on iwi for Her Majesty's NZ government failure to adequately plan for population growth.

    So surely growth was taken into consideration when the consent was agreed ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by whatsup View Post
    So surely growth was taken into consideration when the consent was agreed ?
    I imagine as much as the actual population growth that occurred has been catered for with respect to housing, transport and roads.
    Last edited by Bjauck; 08-05-2020 at 11:47 AM.

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    Not just Auckland drawing from it , an ever increasing in size Hamilton as well .....
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/the-count...ectid=12192522

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    From a press article I read just the other day, (sorry I don't still have a link) attempts have been made for the last 7 years to expand upon the current 150K cubic metres per day resource consent limit.
    For reasons unknown these attempts have been blocked. (Could be that some greenies think the fish or eels needs are more important than humans)
    Meanwhile population growth in the last 7 years in Auckland has been just on 12% and the effects of climate change continue to exacerbate the problem.

    Now Watercare are asking us to be superhero's in their latest advertising campaign and save water after enduring a 7 week lockdown (despite their own ineptitude with planning for population growth and climate change).

    My environmental engineer friend who designs and build water treatment systems for smaller companies tells me that some of the pollutants and contaminants in the Waikato river are very hard to treat / remove, so the blockage in the system could be we need more very expensive plant and equipment systems to treat the water.

    One thing is for absolute certain, if Aucklanders ever do get an expansion in the Waikato river uptake allowance you can bet you last dollar they will pay through the nose a lot extra for the "luxury" of a more secure water supply through higher water charges.
    Last edited by Beagle; 14-05-2020 at 05:53 PM.
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    Senior Member airedale's Avatar
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    Hi Beagle, I have often thought that Waikato water treatment plant could be supplemented by a pipeline directly from Lake Taupo to Auckland. There are already pipelines across the country carrying fuel oil from Marsden Point and gas from Taranaki.

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    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...=recommendedv1

    Extract "However, to take to take a further 200 million litres of water a day from the Waikato River required a resource consent which was lodged in December 2013.
    The application is before the Waikato Regional Council and sits in a processing queue with, somehow, 94 other consents to be considered first. Goff said he has written to Environment Minister David Parker seeking to change the Resource Management Act so consents can be heard in terms of priority. The residents of Auckland would co-sign this letter with a footnote: "Pull finger, minister.
    " Emphasis added

    What a farcical situation and now after a gruelling 7 week lockdown Aucklanders are expected to modify their water use behaviour because of a grossly inept and farcical consenting "process"

    For goodness sake
    Last edited by Beagle; 15-05-2020 at 12:13 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by airedale View Post
    Hi Beagle, I have often thought that Waikato water treatment plant could be supplemented by a pipeline directly from Lake Taupo to Auckland. There are already pipelines across the country carrying fuel oil from Marsden Point and gas from Taranaki.
    Yeah, I have seen the water quality where it enters the Waikato river at Lake Taupo and marvelled at its clarity and purity and where it exit's into the sea at the other end of the river at port Waikato and the quality is VERY different at that end
    Last edited by Beagle; 15-05-2020 at 12:16 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    ...
    One thing is for absolute certain, if Aucklanders ever do get an expansion in the Waikato river uptake allowance you can bet you last dollar they will pay through the nose a lot extra for the "luxury" of a more secure water supply through higher water charges.
    Maybe Auckland has reached its optimum size. Perhaps Hamilton or another upper North Island town should take the future population growth or a new city needs to be built closer to a cheaper and reliable water supply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    Maybe Auckland has reached its optimum size. Perhaps Hamilton or another upper North Island town should take the future population growth or a new city needs to be built closer to a cheaper and reliable water supply.
    If you are vaguely interested, here is a profile on Arthur Mead who was the Auckland Waterworks Engineer from 1929 to his retirement in 1953 and prior to WWI worked on the survey and design work of some of the key reservoirs in the Auckland water supply system. He proposed a 30 mile aqueduct that would have collected more water from an area near Whatipu and Piha but his predecessor as Waterworks Engineer, James Carlaw envisaged that Auckland would source water from the Waikato River...

    We are extremely fortunate that most of the Hunua and Waitakere catchment is protected from development and that work was put in place over a century ago and supplies most of the water without anyone noticing almost all of the time - unless of course, we have had the unusual event this year (although long dry windy summers have become more of the norm). The Waikato treatment uses a radically different treatment than the Hunua or Waitakere catchments using membrane filtration rather than the process for the dams because of those protected catchments.

    https://www.watercare.co.nz/CMSPages...0eb34b3b08a0cb

    Most of the time, the water from Waikato isn't used in any great quantity but it was supposed to provide when the dams were low but the RMA consenting process and the long delays really mean that only an Act of Parliament would cut through the red tape and I cannot see the current coalition doing anything but sit on its hands on this one.

    In 1910 Arthur gained employment at the Auckland City Council. He was sent into the Waitakere Ranges for the survey and design work on the Upper Nihotupu and Huia Dams. In 1915 Arthur led a survey party to investigate all possible water sources in the Waitakere ranges. He prepared an aqueduct design to collect water from the creeks along the Piha valley southward to Whatipu and Huia. The 30-mile long aqueduct, with many tunnels and bridges, would gravitate to Khyber Reservoir with a fall of 60 feet. Waterworks Engineer James Carlaw saw larger water supplies would be needed, and that water would eventually be used from the Waikato River, so most of Arthurís aqueduct did not eventuate. However, short sections were built from Mackies Rest to Huia Filter Station, and the tunnel from the Huia Valley through to the Nihotupu valley.

    Mr Mead played an active role in the preservation of the Waitakere and Hunua watersheds. He ensured restriction of access and introduced other measures to safeguard the catchments, but he also encouraged the establishment of tracks and lookouts so those interested in these valuable forest areas could make use of them for study and recreation

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    What’s the cost of desalination plants

    Even if costly you Aucklanders deserve to pay heaps as punishment for disregarding climate impacts on the environment
    Last edited by winner69; 16-05-2020 at 05:22 PM.
    ďJust consider that maybe the probability of you being wrong is higher than you think.Ē

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rep View Post
    If you are vaguely interested, here is a profile on Arthur Mead who was the Auckland Waterworks Engineer from 1929 to his retirement in 1953 and prior to WWI worked on the survey and design work of some of the key reservoirs in the Auckland water supply system. He proposed a 30 mile aqueduct that would have collected more water from an area near Whatipu and Piha but his predecessor as Waterworks Engineer, James Carlaw envisaged that Auckland would source water from the Waikato River...

    We are extremely fortunate that most of the Hunua and Waitakere catchment is protected from development and that work was put in place over a century ago and supplies most of the water without anyone noticing almost all of the time - unless of course, we have had the unusual event this year (although long dry windy summers have become more of the norm). The Waikato treatment uses a radically different treatment than the Hunua or Waitakere catchments using membrane filtration rather than the process for the dams because of those protected catchments.

    https://www.watercare.co.nz/CMSPages...0eb34b3b08a0cb

    Most of the time, the water from Waikato isn't used in any great quantity but it was supposed to provide when the dams were low but the RMA consenting process and the long delays really mean that only an Act of Parliament would cut through the red tape and I cannot see the current coalition doing anything but sit on its hands on this one.

    In 1910 Arthur gained employment at the Auckland City Council. He was sent into the Waitakere Ranges for the survey and design work on the Upper Nihotupu and Huia Dams. In 1915 Arthur led a survey party to investigate all possible water sources in the Waitakere ranges. He prepared an aqueduct design to collect water from the creeks along the Piha valley southward to Whatipu and Huia. The 30-mile long aqueduct, with many tunnels and bridges, would gravitate to Khyber Reservoir with a fall of 60 feet. Waterworks Engineer James Carlaw saw larger water supplies would be needed, and that water would eventually be used from the Waikato River, so most of Arthurís aqueduct did not eventuate. However, short sections were built from Mackies Rest to Huia Filter Station, and the tunnel from the Huia Valley through to the Nihotupu valley.

    Mr Mead played an active role in the preservation of the Waitakere and Hunua watersheds. He ensured restriction of access and introduced other measures to safeguard the catchments, but he also encouraged the establishment of tracks and lookouts so those interested in these valuable forest areas could make use of them for study and recreation
    Very interesting Rep. Certainly there are some great walks around the dams and reservoirs. Although limited in the amount of supplied water, An open topped aqueduct would have been great for tourism. Just imagine a narrow bateau mouche slowly drifting through the Waitakere foothills to Auckland.

    The info I previously posted reported that 33% of Aucklandís water came from the Waikato. That is not insignificant. I donít see why a further resource consent should be fast tracked for Auckland. If people do not like the occasional water supply construction, they should leave for other cities and towns. Otherwise if everyone still wants to live in Auckland, just use less water or check out Winners suggestion of water desalination...

  17. #17
    Doggedly sniffing out more food Beagle's Avatar
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    The headline for this article sums up media here in NZ
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12332729
    Auckland water woes: Usage down as restrictions kick in but dam levels still falling

    Well the falling reservoir levels would continue even if usage declined if there isn't any rain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    Very interesting Rep. Certainly there are some great walks around the dams and reservoirs. Although limited in the amount of supplied water, An open topped aqueduct would have been great for tourism. Just imagine a narrow bateau mouche slowly drifting through the Waitakere foothills to Auckland.

    The info I previously posted reported that 33% of Aucklandís water came from the Waikato. That is not insignificant. I donít see why a further resource consent should be fast tracked for Auckland. If people do not like the occasional water supply construction, they should leave for other cities and towns. Otherwise if everyone still wants to live in Auckland, just use less water or check out Winners suggestion of water desalination...
    Auckland is a fairly unusual city in that it has three harbours (Waitemata, Kaipara and Manukau), two coasts to the ocean and is on an isthmus that is barely a few kilometres across just south from where I reside. Most of the large cities that I have lived in do source water from outside their territorial boundaries - and in terms of the use of water, I do agree that a lot of what actually falls on Auckland is essentially squandered or mismanaged.

    Case in point is that I live in a subdivision where the city planners required the developers to collect all of the stormwater, construct separate piping down to detention ponds, construct a treatment station and pumping equipment and install an infrastructure for the supply of non-potable water for the use of outside hoses and flushing toilets including separate piping for this purpose in our houses - this would have significantly reduced the consumption of potable water for uses that simply don't merit treated potable water (unless you intend to drink the water out of the toilet) such as irrigation, washing down house and cars etc. This enterprise was duly completed for a huge sum which ultimately was passed onto the home owners and once the infrastructure was installed it was vested to Watercare to operate.

    Watercare, in their wisdom, decided that this was all too expensive to operate given that the non-potable water was not metered (and thus they could not charge for it nor the wastewater charges based on metered water usage) so they simply did not construct the two tanks on land that the developer had sourced for them (that would have provided gravity feed to the downhill subdivision) and to ensure the detention ponds don't overflow, pump it to a stormwater discharge into the Waitemata Harbour. So stormwater subject to oxidation, detention and sand filtering that could be easily deployed to replace non-potable uses of water gets pumped to sea, the homeowners who have paid for the infrastructure don't get any benefit and literally millions of litres of freshwater ends up in the Waitemata Harbour - mainly because Watercare can't make any money from not supplying potable water instead.

    In the end, I installed two rainwater collection tanks at home to use to irrigate my gardens, trees and lawn that returned their acquisition cost in less than one summer due to the savings in water usage and the associated usage and wastewater discharge. With the assistance of a plumber, I will end up hooking the tanks up to the third pipe supply with a pump and have the satisfaction of flushing my dunny and not having to pay Watercare a wastewater usage charge for doing so for years to come.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rep View Post
    The headline for this article sums up media here in NZ
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12332729
    Auckland water woes: Usage down as restrictions kick in but dam levels still falling

    Well the falling reservoir levels would continue even if usage declined if there isn't any rain.



    Auckland is a fairly unusual city in that it has three harbours (Waitemata, Kaipara and Manukau), two coasts to the ocean and is on an isthmus that is barely a few kilometres across just south from where I reside. Most of the large cities that I have lived in do source water from outside their territorial boundaries - and in terms of the use of water, I do agree that a lot of what actually falls on Auckland is essentially squandered or mismanaged.

    Case in point is that I live in a subdivision where the city planners required the developers to collect all of the stormwater, construct separate piping down to detention ponds, construct a treatment station and pumping equipment and install an infrastructure for the supply of non-potable water for the use of outside hoses and flushing toilets including separate piping for this purpose in our houses - this would have significantly reduced the consumption of potable water for uses that simply don't merit treated potable water (unless you intend to drink the water out of the toilet) such as irrigation, washing down house and cars etc. This enterprise was duly completed for a huge sum which ultimately was passed onto the home owners and once the infrastructure was installed it was vested to Watercare to operate.

    Watercare, in their wisdom, decided that this was all too expensive to operate given that the non-potable water was not metered (and thus they could not charge for it nor the wastewater charges based on metered water usage) so they simply did not construct the two tanks on land that the developer had sourced for them (that would have provided gravity feed to the downhill subdivision) and to ensure the detention ponds don't overflow, pump it to a stormwater discharge into the Waitemata Harbour. So stormwater subject to oxidation, detention and sand filtering that could be easily deployed to replace non-potable uses of water gets pumped to sea, the homeowners who have paid for the infrastructure don't get any benefit and literally millions of litres of freshwater ends up in the Waitemata Harbour - mainly because Watercare can't make any money from not supplying potable water instead.

    In the end, I installed two rainwater collection tanks at home to use to irrigate my gardens, trees and lawn that returned their acquisition cost in less than one summer due to the savings in water usage and the associated usage and wastewater discharge. With the assistance of a plumber, I will end up hooking the tanks up to the third pipe supply with a pump and have the satisfaction of flushing my dunny and not having to pay Watercare a wastewater usage charge for doing so for years to come.
    Interesting outcome which i'm sure, had good intentions to lower the cost of water use in your sub-division. So what essentially happens is the water infrastructure was a waste ; probably lost through bureaucratic management.

    My uncle built his house in Auckland with full intention of not relying on the city water supply. He only pays the rates on the discharge of the water waste as his house sits on a filled water tank, some 10,000 L if I recall correctly, designed to collect rain water and supply drinking water in the house. He's been living in it for over 15 years so I assume he's earned a fair portion of the cost back. But the UV water filtration system is not cheap or perhaps.. not so effective (I had massive diarrhea 1 night drinking the tap water - when I should of boiled it). Anyways, a noble observation was if you intend to live in the house long enough, it's well worth to design a house for rain collection / use. He tells me the city has changed HIS water meter 3 times (you would think after the 2nd time that a meter showed no usage of water that they would look at the house plans on file).

    I'm in Chch and all the new subdivisions have water meters. But only the water use meters and none on the sewer end.

  20. #20
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    In Auckland wastewater is charged based on the % of water inflow via the meter . Think it is about 75%- so no matter where you divert 50% to a tank for watering the garden/lawn etc you still pay for it!

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