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  1. #1
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    Default Looking for a good online trading platform for NZX

    Long time reader, first time poster. I have gained lots of valuable knowledge from this forum, many thanks to everyone! English is not my first language, please forgive me if this post is not up to standard.

    I would like to share my user experiences on the efficiency of several online trading platforms in NZ and AU. Hope this will invite other to share theirs so we may find a better place do our trading/investing.

    I use Sharesies and Direct Broking to invest long term in nzx companies and trade asx shares intermittently through Commsec AU. Thereís been no problem for this setup until I decided to sell one of my NZ holdings recently.

    Commsec uses computer algorithm to monitor every new/amended order and once submitted if itís during trading hours the order will be placed to the market as quickly as a click (being traded or shown in the market depth) and I will normally receive an email confirmation within a few seconds. Both their online and phone app have good user interface, lots of features, live data. Commsec is owned by Commonwealth bank, I can transfer money from my CBAís account and Commsecís CDIA account instantly. Iress viewpoint is also a bonus.

    The experience at Direct Broking is totally different. Direct broking monitors all new/amended orders manually. After submitting the order the status will show ĎPlacedí, the time from that point to when the order is actually placed in the market will vary, depending on how busy the directbrokingís trading desk team are. The quickest would be few seconds (still too slow from trading point of view), most of the time few minutes, but sometimes if thereís big trading volume the delay is inevitable. I initially didnít find this is a problem as I buy and hold NZX shares, until when I decided to sell one company shares on a big day, my order wasnít acted upon for over an hour. I tried to call them but the line was busy, but even they could help me over the phone the price had already moved far far away. Finally I had to cancelled the order as thereís no point to sell anyway, the price had dropped to the bottom.

    Sharesies system seems a little faster (still on a slower side comparing to Commsec), but I cannot amend order (have to cancel the existing one, wait for it to be cancelled and submit a new one, if price is moved then I have to do it again and again). They donít have a physical address, donít offer any phone support (have to wait 24 hours for an email reply), plus the shares are not hold under my name. When I withdrew money from my Sharesies account, my bank account shows the funds came from a ĎSharesies Nominee Lií account. Considering everything above I closed my account finally.
    Iím now considering to open an ASB securities account, but before doing that I hope to hear othersí experiences on different trading online platforms for NZX, if thereís one that can match Commsecís efficiency, ease of use etc.

    Would appreciate anyoneís input on this matter!

  2. #2
    always learning ... BlackPeter's Avatar
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    Hi mylovelyday - and this despite it being grey outside ... :

    Welcome to the forum and - good first post (and thread!)

    Looking at your experiences with Direct Broking ... yes, they are probably not a very good platform for somebody with a main focus of short term trading and requiring split second trade execution. Having said that - I think ASB is the only comparable alternative for trading NZ shares ... and while I never used them myself, I have not heard their users singing their praise from the rooftops either.

    If you are an investor with a long term horizon (I am), than you probably will find that Direct Broking's service is normally not bad, and I remember several times when they e.g. called me to enquire whether I still want to sell on a pending SELL order when the company put out a positive announcement. I thought that this was good service, saved me over the years some bucks.

    Unfortunately - I can't recommend any better and / or faster real time trading service for the NZX, but maybe somebody else can. The only other question I would have ... if you are one of the traders who lives of momentums and nano-seconds from your decision to SELL or BUY - are you sure that trading on the NZX is the best method to apply your skills and desires?

    I would think that short term trading would work much better on the US market, some European markets or on the ASX. Much higher volumes and not just brokers able to accommodate these types of trades, but as well Stock Exchange platforms which don't crash on the first southerly blowing threw the internet.
    ----
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    Looking at your experiences with Direct Broking ... yes, they are probably not a very good platform for somebody with a main focus of short term trading and requiring split second trade execution. Having said that - I think ASB is the only comparable alternative for trading NZ shares ... and while I never used them myself, I have not heard their users singing their praise from the rooftops either.

    If you are an investor with a long term horizon (I am), than you probably will find that Direct Broking's service is normally not bad, and I remember several times when they e.g. called me to enquire whether I still want to sell on a pending SELL order when the company put out a positive announcement. I thought that this was good service, saved me over the years some bucks.

    Unfortunately - I can't recommend any better and / or faster real time trading service for the NZX, but maybe somebody else can. The only other question I would have ... if you are one of the traders who lives of momentums and nano-seconds from your decision to SELL or BUY - are you sure that trading on the NZX is the best method to apply your skills and desires?

    I would think that short term trading would work much better on the US market, some European markets or on the ASX. Much higher volumes and not just brokers able to accommodate these types of trades, but as well Stock Exchange platforms which don't crash on the first southerly blowing threw the internet.
    Agree with you, BP.

    The online brokers here suffer from the inadequacies & charging regime (basically, charge for anything) of the NZX while as the likes of Commsec operate on the ASX where the ASX bends backwards to promote and encourage investors to trade.

    If you are looking for speedy & real time execution, there is only one choice on NZX - use a broker. And unfortunately, they are a dying breed - brokers in NZ are all moving into portfolio management services - charge for no advice.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by mylovelyday View Post
    Commsec uses computer algorithm to monitor every new/amended order and once submitted if itís during trading hours the order will be placed to the market as quickly as a click (being traded or shown in the market depth) and I will normally receive an email confirmation within a few seconds.
    ASB Securities is normally fast... but there has been the odd day when it has been slow. It is not perfect. Calling through to the brokers is generally great too, they are friendly and usually prompt to pickup the phone.

    The email notifications of successful trades are very prompt. I'll know I've had a trade go through because I get 20+ emails notifications on my phone in the space of a minute or two from each individual transfers for my large buy orders. They will then follow up with an email after trading finishes for the day, listing all of your successful trades for the day which is quite useful.


    Quote Originally Posted by mylovelyday View Post
    Both their online and phone app have good user interface, lots of features, live data. Commsec is owned by Commonwealth bank, I can transfer money from my CBAís account and Commsecís CDIA account instantly. Iress viewpoint is also a bonus.
    Exchanging money from NZD to AUD is NOT instant when transferring to a CMA like it is from NZD > NZD. Usually an overnight affair.

    The Exchange rate for NZD > AUD and AUD > NZD are heavily in ASB's favour, e.g. they ping you harsh both ways. I really wish I could find a way to to transfer money between the two currencies, which was quicker and with better rates.


    Quote Originally Posted by mylovelyday View Post
    Sharesies system seems a little faster (still on a slower side comparing to Commsec), but I cannot amend order (have to cancel the existing one, wait for it to be cancelled and submit a new one, if price is moved then I have to do it again and again). They donít have a physical address, donít offer any phone support (have to wait 24 hours for an email reply), plus the shares are not hold under my name. When I withdrew money from my Sharesies account, my bank account shows the funds came from a ĎSharesies Nominee Lií account. Considering everything above I closed my account finally.
    You can amend orders in ASB. I also refuse to use Sharsies because you don't actually own the shares.

    Quote Originally Posted by mylovelyday View Post
    Iím now considering to open an ASB securities account, but before doing that I hope to hear othersí experiences on different trading online platforms for NZX, if thereís one that can match Commsecís efficiency, ease of use etc.
    ASB Securities is "OK", but the interface is quite archaic, the user interface looks like something from the 1990's.

  5. #5
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    Hello and welcome to ShareTrader.

    Please don't consider your use of English to be of insufficient standard for this site as your post is very well written with a much better emphasis on grammar and spelling than most.

    I use NAB Trade and ASB Securities and find things similar to you - ASX buy and sell trades happen almost immediately whilst NZX trades are much slower. I can't help with why there is such a variance between the two but can reassure you that you're not alone with having NZX speed issues.

  6. #6
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    I notice my Australian online broker will often get me a lower price than what I bid. Direct Broking never.
    Last edited by Nor; 11-10-2020 at 11:26 AM. Reason: Wrong word

  7. #7
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    Hi mylovelyday,

    I am a happy ASB Securities user and a past heavy US broker user.
    About a year back, I started thinking about switching to Direct Broking as they 'appeared' to offer a better interface and did offer better broking rates on larger orders. As a Premium customer I was paying 0.3% for brokerage but am now paying 0.2% brokerage on most orders.

    I have found the real-time display of depth to be absolutely trouble free, unlike the issues I understand are being experienced on DB. This feature is critical to me as I am buying larger volumes and need real-time display of depth to be flawless. Unlike the US brokers, I cannot get 2nd-level depth on ASB, not sure if you can on DB either.

    Unfortunately, real-time depth breaks down in the last 5 minutes, sometimes longer leading upto 5pm final order matching, but this is an NZX issue as I understand it, as their systems are severely outdated and overloaded due to Sharesies small-order high-volumes, and their systems are currently being reviewed for a major update next year.

    We do get real time data on our watchlists and have always had it (at least 5 years). Great for taking snapshots of the market...

    Order execution is normally a 2 step process, with an 'order creation' message, followed by an 'order on market' message. The process usually takes 5-25 seconds before you see it in the depth display. Slow compared to the US but acceptable as subject to manual intervention and verification processes. Email trade confirmations follow a few seconds later, with A/C confirmation emails by 6pm (NZX) or overnight (for ASX).

    Phone support is excellent for me, with 8 times out of 10, getting to my preferred support person eg when order placing occasionally breaks down and has to be done manually. The only frustrating thing is the read-back order verification step, which takes too long when needing to place fast moving derivative products eg BBOZ on the ASX. If for some reason a trade is rejected, ASB 'usually' call me directly by phone to advise. I rate this service as pretty good.

    The other thing I would like is a trailing-stop option. There are only Market & Limit orders available on ASB.

    Portfolio prices are 20 minute delayed also. The gains & losses % is calculated on the life-time number of trades for a stock. A key feature I would look for is to select the most recent trades for a stock, to get the current gain or loss on a selected set of trades. I would move to another broker who offers this feature.

    I have found their systems to be pretty solid over the last year, with only a couple of orders not executing, due to physical overloading of staff at busy execution times. Next project is looking at Sharesight integration with ASB, loading trading history reliably etc. Seems to be offered for ASB & DB, just not sure how reliable in practice.

    I hope this helps. Your written English is excellent by the way...
    Last edited by Davexl; 12-10-2020 at 03:14 PM.
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  8. #8
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    I use ASB securities for executing my trades and investments in ASX And NZX

    For ASX and NZX real time data and whole load of other facilities I use a software called spark from iguana. https://iguana2.com/. It helps me easily keep track of around 20 different stocks that I follow in real time.

    And Sharesight is great to manage your portfolio and for tax matters.
    Last edited by calledone; 12-10-2020 at 09:27 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mylovelyday View Post
    Long time reader, first time poster. I have gained lots of valuable knowledge from this forum, many thanks to everyone! English is not my first language, please forgive me if this post is not up to standard.

    I would like to share my user experiences on the efficiency of several online trading platforms in NZ and AU. Hope this will invite other to share theirs so we may find a better place do our trading/investing.

    I use Sharesies and Direct Broking to invest long term in nzx companies and trade asx shares intermittently through Commsec AU. Thereís been no problem for this setup until I decided to sell one of my NZ holdings recently.

    Commsec uses computer algorithm to monitor every new/amended order and once submitted if itís during trading hours the order will be placed to the market as quickly as a click (being traded or shown in the market depth) and I will normally receive an email confirmation within a few seconds. Both their online and phone app have good user interface, lots of features, live data. Commsec is owned by Commonwealth bank, I can transfer money from my CBAís account and Commsecís CDIA account instantly. Iress viewpoint is also a bonus.

    The experience at Direct Broking is totally different. Direct broking monitors all new/amended orders manually. After submitting the order the status will show ĎPlacedí, the time from that point to when the order is actually placed in the market will vary, depending on how busy the directbrokingís trading desk team are. The quickest would be few seconds (still too slow from trading point of view), most of the time few minutes, but sometimes if thereís big trading volume the delay is inevitable. I initially didnít find this is a problem as I buy and hold NZX shares, until when I decided to sell one company shares on a big day, my order wasnít acted upon for over an hour. I tried to call them but the line was busy, but even they could help me over the phone the price had already moved far far away. Finally I had to cancelled the order as thereís no point to sell anyway, the price had dropped to the bottom.

    Sharesies system seems a little faster (still on a slower side comparing to Commsec), but I cannot amend order (have to cancel the existing one, wait for it to be cancelled and submit a new one, if price is moved then I have to do it again and again). They donít have a physical address, donít offer any phone support (have to wait 24 hours for an email reply), plus the shares are not hold under my name. When I withdrew money from my Sharesies account, my bank account shows the funds came from a ĎSharesies Nominee Lií account. Considering everything above I closed my account finally.
    Iím now considering to open an ASB securities account, but before doing that I hope to hear othersí experiences on different trading online platforms for NZX, if thereís one that can match Commsecís efficiency, ease of use etc.

    Would appreciate anyoneís input on this matter!
    Good thread and welcome! Iíve made the switch from DB to sharesies primarily from a simplification standpoint (nz and us one stop shop) and their pricing structure allows more numerous and well diversified holdings for a small time investor. On the question of ownership they are very explicit that ownership still sit with investor see here https://www.sharesies.nz/ourblog/201...todial-service

    Overall have been happy with the switch although would like more information on the site like announcements, delayed bid/ask etc (have to keep nzx.com open..

  10. #10
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    Exchanging money from NZD to AUD is NOT instant when transferring to a CMA like it is from NZD > NZD. Usually an overnight affair.

    The Exchange rate for NZD > AUD and AUD > NZD are heavily in ASB's favour, e.g. they ping you harsh both ways. I really wish I could find a way to to transfer money between the two currencies, which was quicker and with better rates.

    Norwest - one solution to your problem stated above is to open AUD foreign currency account with ASB and use foreign currency exchange firms like OFX to transfer NZD to your AUD foreign currency account, much cheaper than banks. It does take couple of days for the transfer to happen.
    The other advantage is that all AUD dividends could be debited to this account thus saving you foreign exchange fees

  11. #11
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    Sharesies two big negatives from my viewpoint, no phone contact and you can't have multiple orders stacked up in an individual stock.

  12. #12
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    we run multiple portfolios and custom software to track transactions and multi inventory - SH is just not remotely suitable once you are over certain vol and it does not allow you to own the share. It is perfect for first time investors.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waltzingironmansinlgescul View Post
    we run multiple portfolios and custom software to track transactions and multi inventory - SH is just not remotely suitable once you are over certain vol and it does not allow you to own the share. It is perfect for first time investors.
    Sharesies do have an option where you can transfer in to a CSN though and back out again as well. So if you are worried about not allowing you to own the share (whatever that means) you have the option to put it on a CSN post purchase.

    Sharesies holds stock in nominee just like Computershare or Link do. You do not actually own the share, its just numbers on an email provided by a third party be it on CSN or in Sharesies.

  14. #14
    always learning ... BlackPeter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nor View Post
    I notice my Australian online broker will often get me a lower price than what I bid. Direct Broking never.
    Well, while I can't comment on your Australian broker - my experience with DB in that regard is different.

    I remember several occasions where they bought cheaper than my BUY limit ... and it is as well not unusual that they sell my orders for a better price than my sell limit.
    ----
    "Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" (Niels Bohr)

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    Sharesies holds stock in nominee just like Computershare or Link do. You do not actually own the share, its just numbers on an email provided by a third party be it on CSN or in Sharesies.
    If I interpret correctly I would question this statement. Computershare and Link are share registries and the shares you purchase through a normal broker will be held in your name with Computershare or Link (or someone else) entrusted with keeping the records for who owns how many.

    All Sharesies holders will be lumped together as 'Sharesies Nominee' at the Computershare registry
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by peat View Post
    If I interpret correctly I would question this statement. Computershare and Link are share registries and the shares you purchase through a normal broker will be held in your name with Computershare or Link (or someone else) entrusted with keeping the records for who owns how many.

    All Sharesies holders will be lumped together as 'Sharesies Nominee' at the Computershare registry
    Fair point. What I was trying to illustrate is that you don't actually "own" anything with either, just a bunch of 0 and 1's in the ether.

    But yes I suppose Sharesies could up off to Brazil with your stock if they so wished, whilst it would be harder for Computershare or Link to do so.

    Either way, the Sharesies ownership model, uncomfortable to some is quite common in overseas jurisdictions.

  17. #17
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    Sharesies is NOT a good platform for frequent trading regardless of the share ownership structure.

  18. #18
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    Frequent traders, say daily or more often , who hold positions for hours days or even a few weeks may choose to use CFD's as a mode. Cheap fees, instantaneous execution, good liquidity, limited range of stocks.
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by couta1 View Post
    Sharesies two big negatives from my viewpoint, no phone contact and you can't have multiple orders stacked up in an individual stock.
    And no possibility to trade on the USX so not an option for me

  20. #20
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    Flint set to spark platform competition

    Another investment platform is due to arrive in NZ within weeks under the Flint Wealth brand

    https://investmentnews.co.nz/investm...m-competition/

    more competition is good , by the way there are no good platforms in NZ for traders and the brokerage is high but NZ market does offer good trading opportunities for lower volume trading with a delay.
    serious traders use such platforms as interactive brokers for worldwide markets does aus etc not nz though. i use td ameritrade in US which is good no brokerage and super fast execution.
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