Labour govt 2020-23

[Bjauck]

Tom Skinner - born in Mangaweka
Ken Douglas - born in Wellington
Bill Richards born ?
Jim Knox - born in Auckland
Don’t forget Sonja Davies - born in Upper Hutt
However Liverpudlian born Pat Kelly is one of your armies of moaning Brits. Present when the Trades Hall was bombed. His daughter blames the bombing on anti-union hysteria whipped up by “Dancing Cossacks” Robert Muldoon.

I salute them all for their fortitude in standing up against the establishment in support of workers’ rights. I perhaps would not have agreed with all their arguments. However it did not sound easy job to support workers and employees in the Muldoon era and with the bigotry in society.

[jonu]

My first personal experience of unionism was working for a bank in the mid 80s. Our Union had 2 full time employees as I recall. None other than Max Bradford was boss of the Banking Association (which acted on behalf of banks to work with/against the Union).

Now in my opinion Max Bradford's later electricity reforms were disastrous for NZ. I think he is a prize twat. But he sure as hell stitched up the Bank Union. He waited until both the employees went on a jolly to Geneva (guess who was paying for it) and then announced a change of bank opening hours and work conditions for staff.

[Balance]

I salute them all for their fortitude in standing up against the establishment in support of workers’ rights. I perhaps would not have agreed with all their arguments. However it did not sound easy job to support workers and employees in the Muldoon era and with the bigotry in society.

You need to understand the Muldoon era a lot better than you think you do.

Muldoon was a buffoon who did not have a clue how to manage the NZ economy and he made some of the most far reaching disastrous decisions NZ had to live with for decades after :

Scrapping compulsory super
Introducing SMPs & increasing them relentlessly even as markets dried up
Allowing inflation to rage out of control
Think Big projects
Borrowing recklessly
Wage & price freeze
Allowing tax avoidance schemes
…. the list goes on and on and on.

What’s the relevance of the above?

Well, as he lost economic and social credibility, Muldoon turned to divisive tactics to stay in power, come what may.

So the Trade Union movement & their disruptive tactics were most useful for Muldoon - which is why he did not remove compulsory unionism even as he threatened time and again to do so. Suited him to allow them to create mayhem out in the workplace and in industries. They achieved nothing - try to list 3 achievements from that era which were beneficial to workers and NZers if you can.

So forget about your laudable salute to them - I would go so far as to say I would spit on them for their betrayal of all NZers. They were not fit to walk among real workers.

[Bjauck]

You need to understand the Muldoon era a lot better than you think you do.

...
So forget about your laudable salute to them - I would go so far as to say I would spit on them for their betrayal of all NZers. They were not fit to walk among real workers.

Fair enough that is your opinion. From Muldoon's treatment of his fellow MPs, even in his own Party, to his deliberate divisiveness and vilification of certain groups and people to me he seems like a NZ Trump.

[Balance]

Fair enough that is your opinion. From Muldoon's treatment of his fellow MPs, even in his own Party, to his deliberate divisiveness and vilification of certain groups and people to me he seems like a NZ Trump.

My opinion indeed - based upon real life experience.

You have to work in a trade unionized workplace back in those dark days to really appreciate how bad things were.

The trade union bosses used to get the workers to go on strike for the flimsiest of reasons even though the majority did not want to by loading the committees with their goons.

We had one instance in the industrial factory (where I worked for a while) when they incited several 'simple minded' recent migrants from the Pacific Islands during a strike to break in and they destroyed machinery & finished products, causing huge damage and delaying the opening of the factory by weeks. And they incited the workers further of course to go on strike for strike pay! Then, there was the 'no strike bonus pay'!

All to show they had power - bugger all to do with enhancing workers' rights and conditions. They were the union leaders you are saluting.

[fungus pudding]

Talk of the restrictive rules controlling NZ in those days reminds me of only being allowed to buy margarine with a doctor's prescription, and only from a chemist. Lists of products dairies could sell, e.g. pies but not tomato sauce. Hand soap but not washing powder. Dairies usually divided products into open areas and areas that could be locked off. Grocery stores other than those classed as dairies had to close at 5 p.m. and weekends were not allowed to open. Neither could most retail shops apart from Brighton in Christchurch and one suburb in Wellington. This was all policed by Labour Dept. inspectors. Pubs were only allowed to open till 6 p.m. That is why I say it was an awful little country. It was always fascinating to talk to someone who had been bold enough to go to Australia or for the really bold - even further (preumably with a friend to provide accomodation because funds to take overseas did not really provide sufficient for hotel accomodation and leave any spending money) anyway such travellers would have us wide eyed with stories of the shopping at weekends - pubs open in the evening, clubs with restaurants and bars, and many other activitities forbidden in NZ and a few communist coutries.

[Balance]

Why NZers went across to Oz back in those dark days to get a taste of life as it should be. Now over 500,000 NZers live there.

[SBQ]

Why NZers went across to Oz back in those dark days to get a taste of life as it should be. Now over 500,000 NZers live there.

I agree, the high % of NZ expats living abroad is a concern. Some sources say as much as 20% (mostly living in Australia) with no intention of moving back. Many have asked me about my father why he's not staying in NZ (over the Covid situation as he is a non-NZ resident living in Canada). I simply said the risk for him staying in NZ for more than 6 months in a year is the greater risk than the Covid. Once you become a NZ tax residence, IRD requires you to disclose ALL of your foreign assets (excess $100K) despite you have no reason to wanting to reside in NZ. In general public, I don't believe people understand how much taxation is an issue for those that have wealth.

[Bjauck]

Talk of the restrictive rules controlling NZ in those days reminds me of only being allowed to buy margarine with a doctor's prescription, and only from a chemist. Lists of products dairies could sell, e.g. pies but not tomato sauce. Hand soap but not washing powder. Dairies usually divided products into open areas and areas that could be locked off. Grocery stores other than those classed as dairies had to close at 5 p.m. and weekends were not allowed to open. Neither could most retail shops apart from Brighton in Christchurch and one suburb in Wellington. This was all policed by Labour Dept. inspectors. Pubs were only allowed to open till 6 p.m. That is why I say it was an awful little country. It was always fascinating to talk to someone who had been bold enough to go to Australia or for the really bold - even further (preumably with a friend to provide accomodation because funds to take overseas did not really provide sufficient for hotel accomodation and leave any spending money) anyway such travellers would have us wide eyed with stories of the shopping at weekends - pubs open in the evening, clubs with restaurants and bars, and many other activitities forbidden in NZ and a few communist coutries.

True, the domination of primary produce farmers and their organisations was strong.

I don’t see how your complaints made NZ an awful country - perhaps less so than currently having most trading banking owned by foreign companies and so many successful companies having to locate overseas to access capital - whilst in the meantime NZ’s residential housing is worth so much many multiples more than the stock market capitalisation. Now that is bat-crazy!

The UK’s post-war exchange controls were only lifted in 1979. Their pubs had restrictive opening times too until relatively recently including closing in the afternoons! UK shops would often close in the afternoons and for lunch. Sunday trading legislation was introduced there only in 1994. So context of the times is key.

[fungus pudding]

I agree, the high % of NZ expats living abroad is a concern. Some sources say as much as 20% (mostly living in Australia) with no intention of moving back. Many have asked me about my father why he's not staying in NZ (over the Covid situation as he is a non-NZ resident living in Canada). I simply said the risk for him staying in NZ for more than 6 months in a year is the greater risk than the Covid. Once you become a NZ tax residence, IRD requires you to disclose ALL of your foreign assets (excess $100K) despite you have no reason to wanting to reside in NZ. In general public, I don't believe people understand how much taxation is an issue for those that have wealth.

I'm certainly no tax expert, but I think many countries require you to declare your world wide assets and income for tax purposes. But tax paid to one govt. usually attracts a credit from your country of residence.
It's a tricky area which sometimes requires a tax specialist and not just a book-keeper. Are you sure the reason he stays in Canada rather then NZ is not because he prefers living in Canada? They're generally not a bad mob over there.