Labour govt 2020-23

[Balance]

What I don't understand is that in the 2 months Sep/Oct last year 1000 families were added - where did they live before? Did we have 1000 families come in from overseas who weren't living here before and take their houses?
The problem needs more analysis to understand what is happening.

By the way - how did the Govt turn it into a disaster if they did nothing? National did nothing.
Aren't 'market forces' supposed to solve everything - keep the Govt out of it?

3 years into Cindy’s government and you are still busy making excuses and playing the blame game!

No wonder the housing disaster escalates month by month!

[iceman]

What I don't understand is that in the 2 months Sep/Oct last year 1000 families were added - where did they live before? Did we have 1000 families come in from overseas who weren't living here before and take their houses?
The problem needs more analysis to understand what is happening.

By the way - how did the Govt turn it into a disaster if they did nothing? National did nothing.
Aren't 'market forces' supposed to solve everything - keep the Govt out of it?

You can hardly say the Government is not in the housing markets with all it's social housing, accommodation supplements and we could go on and on. Government is seriously distorting the housing market with a suite of scatter gun like approach that achieve absolutely nothing. Not just this Government either although they've made things a lot worse, greatly assisted by the RBNZ.

[Balance]

Cover of Vogue, silly.

You, Sir - are a CHAMPION!

Love it!

[iceman]

You, Sir - are a CHAMPION!

Love it!

I'm not sure artemis appreciates being called a Sir !!

[dobby41]

3 years into Cindy’s government and you are still busy making excuses and playing the blame game!

No wonder the housing disaster escalates month by month!

I'm not actually.
I agree that Labour failed (as expected) on the Kiwibuild - a farce!
I think the question is still valid - I haven't assumed any answer.

What I don't understand is that in the 2 months Sep/Oct last year 1000 families were added - where did they live before? Did we have 1000 families come in from overseas who weren't living here before and take their houses?
The problem needs more analysis to understand what is happening.

By the way - how did the Govt turn it into a disaster if they did nothing?

[dobby41]

And you've gone full circle back to Logen's argument. Market forces are being disrupted by Reserve Bank policy and Government Rent Subsidies.

You can hardly say the Government is not in the housing markets with all it's social housing, accommodation supplements and we could go on and on. Government is seriously distorting the housing market with a suite of scatter gun like approach that achieve absolutely nothing. Not just this Government either although they've made things a lot worse, greatly assisted by the RBNZ.

I agree that the rent subsidies are wrong.
The Govt should house those who can't afford a real rent (or help social housing providers do it).
The private sector should house the rest - students, those just starting out, more wealthy people who don't want to buy or are between houses etc.

I believe that what the RBNZ does is part of market forces.

[Balance]

Unfortunately they'd have to come up with something that would work - you just have to have an opinion.

The Singapore model would work in NZ - NZ did the same thing during the 50s to the early 70s. In fact, Singapore sent teams to study how countries like Australia, NZ and UK provided state housing! The massive state housing building program in NZ was discontinued due to budgetary constraints and never restarted again.

You can hardly say the Government is not in the housing markets with all it's social housing, accommodation supplements and we could go on and on. Government is seriously distorting the housing market with a suite of scatter gun like approach that achieve absolutely nothing. Not just this Government either although they've made things a lot worse, greatly assisted by the RBNZ.

Billions of dollars spent each year on rental subsidies, emergency housing and for what? Creating expanding state dependency and an ever growing list.

[dobby41]

The Singapore model would work in NZ - NZ did the same thing during the 50s to the early 70s!

Doesn't overcome the issue of trades people - that's what sunk Kiwibuild as much as anything else.
The Singapore model builds up, in the 50's to 70's we built out.
The biggest problem with housing affordability is land cost and infrastructure financing.
Both could be helped by the Toronto (I think) model. When land is re-zoned for housing it suddenly become worth more - a windfall for the owner.
In Toronto a portion of that windfall goes to the city for the infrastructure needed.

[Balance]

Doesn't overcome the issue of trades people - that's what sunk Kiwibuild as much as anything else.
The Singapore model builds up, in the 50's to 70's we built out.
The biggest problem with housing affordability is land cost and infrastructure financing.
Both could be helped by the Toronto (I think) model. When land is re-zoned for housing it suddenly become worth more - a windfall for the owner.
In Toronto a portion of that windfall goes to the city for the infrastructure needed.

Building up or out - costs will be the same as high rises are expensive to build! Ask any apartment and high rise developers!

And remember that Singapore imports all of its building materials - all of it! So how the heck can they build affordable housing? Answer - scale & buying power.

We have land for Africa in NZ!

Re Toronto - now that's sensible and that's what China does too. Why not learn from other countries' experiences rather than this nonsense of throwing money with no properly defined outcomes?

Re issue of trades people - import them. That's what Singapore does. Change building methods - which we are now belatedly doing with modular & terrace housing.

[dobby41]

Re Toronto - now that's sensible and that's what China does too. Why not learn from other countries' experiences rather than this nonsense of throwing money with no properly defined outcomes?

Re issue of trades people - import them. That's what Singapore does. Change building methods - which we are now belatedly doing with modular & terrace housing.

We have issues around peoples expectations.
The 50's build was interesting - produced a huge number of houses that looked the same but people were happy with that, now the bitch and moan.
Take some of peoples unearned profit (land value change) and they will be called Communist.
Import labour - you did see how the migrant labour were housed in Singapore? And the Covid infection rate - over half got infected. Probably not the conditions that would be acceptable here.
It is hard to take different countries systems piecemeal and expect the same outcomes.

Having said that - more could be done.
Apprentices is a good start.
Overcome the infrastructure financing issues would help.
Break the materials strangle-hold the current players have - the Govt could import materials in bulk for their jobs (has to still be BRANZ approved of course - we don't want to cut corners and create the next 'leaky home' like disaster).