Labour govt 2020-23

[artemis]

.... Taxing interest for property investors doesn't hurt investors, they'll just pass it to renters... Labour was even nice enough to spread it for them accros 4 years so they can increase rent progressively...

Not all landlords will be able to recover new expenses from rent increases. Especially for recent purchases where the new interest deduction rule has not been taken into account in the sums. And of course there are many other new costs, compliances and risks imposed over the past 3+ years.

And not all landlords are paying interest. They will do well out of the new rules if they keep adjusting rents to around market rent. That would be market rent that is already increasing and not looking like stopping any time soon except perhaps in specific oversupply locations like Auckland apartments. Meantime they are quietly upgrading their rentals, as required, and the tenants are paying.

Moe then half of private rentals are managed by professional property managers. They will have a very good handle on market rents, supply and demand and are working for their client not the tenants.

[peetter]

We are still waiting on the definition of "New build" according to Labour. Because obviously their announcement came without actually having an idea what the implementation will be. However you are correct. But my post was to highlight the Labour policies are always hardests on poor people and this one is not an exception.

[artemis]

We are still waiting on the definition of "New build" according to Labour. Because obviously their announcement came without actually having an idea what the implementation will be. However you are correct. But my post was to highlight the Labour policies are always hardests on poor people and this one is not an exception.

People might be aware that there is a very big NZ property investors Facebook group (53,000 members and counting). Yesterday a developer posted that they have several new townhouses ready for buyers but as agent doesn't know the new build rules sales are at risk. That developer must be worried sick.

[fungus pudding]

The 10% swing voters who change parties probably don't though.

If you followed the standard practice of including the quote you are replying to then we would all have some idea of what you are on about. E.g What is it that 10% of voters don't do? Your posts are simply impossible to follow for us unprophetic mortals.

[Bjauck]

..

I don't understand how anyone can't see this. And how anyone is okay with any governments increasing taxes and coming with new sneaky taxes while they run the most inefficient organization. With all the taxes people are now paying more than 50% of income to the government and it gets worse every year...

I agree. I think some can see. However probably insufficient numbers for Labour to rely on in order to get elected. Labour wanted the Treasury Benches and decided that the way to achieve electoral success was by promising not to broaden the tax base by introducing a general CGT etc. However they tried to get around that by making a dog's dinner by introducing a new income tax band, extending brightline, disallowing interest deductions in some circumstances and now saving costs by freezing pay.

Labour becomes "comradey" and flies "The people's red flag" only when it suits them.

[SBQ]

We are still waiting on the definition of "New build" according to Labour. Because obviously their announcement came without actually having an idea what the implementation will be. However you are correct. But my post was to highlight the Labour policies are always hardests on poor people and this one is not an exception.

I can't help but to ask, what do you suggest how the NZ gov't can help those in need, those on low income without proper accommodation or the means to make a living?

All too easy to point the finger and blame and rah rah. I've even given examples what other countries like Canada have done to address these issues but the response is more like, "well if you think Canada is great, why don't you move there right away kind of attitude".

When I moved to NZ 25 years ago, I assumed it was a very progressive country. But all I see is the rich continually suck the wealth from society (by the hands of owning residential properties). Many don't realise that NZ's residential market is a net sum game meaning the actions by the wealthy from buying more and more houses (as demand increases), also punishes the majority in paying more on their mortgages. The winners are the banks as they reap more profits and where do these earnings go?

So again, if everyone is so rah rah on how poor of a job Jacinda and her Labour Party has done, I would suggest gives some other better ideas to this conversation. There's a lot of people I dislike but that doesn't mean I need constantly say so and so is "disgusting" (eh Balance ?)

[SBQ]

I agree. I think some can see. However probably insufficient numbers for Labour to rely on in order to get elected. Labour wanted the Treasury Benches and decided that the way to achieve electoral success was by promising not to broaden the tax base by introducing a general CGT etc. However they tried to get around that by making a dog's dinner by introducing a new income tax band, extending brightline, disallowing interest deductions in some circumstances and now saving costs by freezing pay.

Labour becomes "comradey" and flies "The people's red flag" only when it suits them.

I fail to see the distinction of communism and what the Labour Party has done. Raising taxes is not an act of communism. Capitalism still applies in NZ businesses and if individuals make their wealth, they're able to enjoy it. I do feel Jacinda wanted CGT in NZ (as recommended by the TWG) but there was no way to convince the rest of the NZ gov'ts that CGT would be the best choice. How could you when the majority of NZ gov't politicians own a hefty real estate portfolio? So instead Jacinda when for the easy ones. Very easy to extend the Bright Line test, add another income tax bracket, salary freezes all around. On the latter, it's called leading by example and nothing is worse than gov't politicians having increases in pay while the private sector struggles to employ anyone.

Look at Singapore where they citizens are under strict gov't authoritarian rule while maintain all incentives for capitalism. A system that worked so well, China even copied it. However, the key distinction is China copied only their business economic model and not their individual freedom and rights that western nations embrace. Maybe i'm not seeing the whole picture but communism to me means loss of individual freedoms such as the ability to voice your own opinion, ability of mobility, ability of thoughts and expression to the public, ability to make different choices.

[Bjauck]

Jacinda is a fair weather socialist. If a socialist policy won't get her elected she discards it. NZ has socialised capitalism bounded by tax and regulation.

There is no doubt that NZers wealth is so very heavily dependent on real estate, both owner occupied and rented out. Politicians on both left and right treat it as a sacred cow.

Sure if Individuals inherit or increase their wealth, they keep it*. If people earn income to try to build up wealth, it is taxed - and then any interest - is taxed again. Add to that the GST on necessities too. NZ may have a progressive income tax system but it has has a regressive tax system overall.

*by and large. There are exceptions. Hence individuals have sought the tax efficiency of investing heavily in their owner-occupied real estate.

[peetter]

I can't help but to ask, what do you suggest how the NZ gov't can help those in need, those on low income without proper accommodation or the means to make a living?

All too easy to point the finger and blame and rah rah. I've even given examples what other countries like Canada have done to address these issues but the response is more like, "well if you think Canada is great, why don't you move there right away kind of attitude".

When I moved to NZ 25 years ago, I assumed it was a very progressive country. But all I see is the rich continually suck the wealth from society (by the hands of owning residential properties). Many don't realise that NZ's residential market is a net sum game meaning the actions by the wealthy from buying more and more houses (as demand increases), also punishes the majority in paying more on their mortgages. The winners are the banks as they reap more profits and where do these earnings go?

So again, if everyone is so rah rah on how poor of a job Jacinda and her Labour Party has done, I would suggest gives some other better ideas to this conversation. There's a lot of people I dislike but that doesn't mean I need constantly say so and so is "disgusting" (eh Balance ?)

No tax on first 10-15k of income. Change tax brackets to take into account last 11 years of inflation. No GST on healthy food ingredients you can use to cook from. Government led aprenticeship program that would allow businesses to deduct aprentices as a business expense. Mandatory school finance classes that will teach debt is bad and how to save and invest. Let home owners deduct part of the interest on their house.

Review housing NZ residents need for housing. Kick the ones abusing it. Kick out the ones causing issues. Put time limits for benefits for people who are fit to work.

As for property. Relax zoning. Force councils to clear land for development by private sector, in exchange private sector would have to provide percentage of those houses to FHB through Kainga ora. If you build enough, you'll suspend house prices as is happening in Christchurch.

As for HNZ, build tiny homes, apartments, container homes. It is a huge mistake buying houses for social housing.

[Bjauck]

.... Do you not remember Tom Skinner, Pat Kelly, Ken Doughlas, Bill Richards, Jim Knox and the others - frequently on the news causing mayhem. Yes - they were well known and the harm they did to NZs economy, and reputation was immense. I don't know your age, but you obviously weren't working in that period - when no matter what, you were forced to join their horrible unions, and pay fees. If you could be bothered with the rigmarole you could be a conscientous objector - I was - although I still had to donate the equivalent of the union fees to an approved charity. They were thugs and bullies and it took a brave stance to be an objector.
You should read a bit of history of Trade Unionism in NZ, some of it even interesting like the Trades Hall bombing in 1984, which killed caretaker Ernie Abbot. A horrible period, promoted by scum - to nobodys' benefit.

I was interested to read that an interaction with moaning Brit unionist Pat Kelly had a significant influence on management colossus, Rob Campbell.

“Pat worked for the drivers’ union, and he had some colleagues with him. They were expressing the view that when they went to their wage negotiations and said ‘we’d like more’ and the boss refused, all they could do was either sulk about it or go on strike,” he says"

https://thespinoff.co.nz/business/13...g-class-heart/

The circle of life.