Labour govt 2020-23

[justakiwi]

That’s total BS. I have no problem with diversity whatsoever. I do have a problem with fools and idiots, arrogance, narcissistic and misogynistic attitudes and behaviour, and racism.

Probably just as well. The US are extremely interesting, but you would not be able to handle the diversity.

[Bjauck]

What tripe. This woman is now representing us on the world stage. That does make it my business.

I agree.

She looks for all the world like a drop-kick from a bikie gang.

Seriously?

I am not overly racist,

OK

but certainly wouldn't criticise anyone who is.

Wow!

People who genuinely have no prejudices, including racial prejudices, would not be safe in much of the world. It is our prejudice, or ability to pre-judge that gives us the ability to sense danger.

Are you confusing prejudice with life experience? Only relying on outward appearance could get you into danger too. Everyone makes a snap decision based on appearance and their life experience. Those who are prejudiced will rigidly stick to it, despite subsequent evidence to the contrary.

I could take some of these preachers to parts of the USA or Sth. Africa for example, and suggest they take a stroll through certain areas at night. Most would run a mile - which would show most who criticise others as racist, are hypocrites. Free speech and free thought should never be criticised.

Are you throwing deprivation and bad policing into the mix to somehow justify racism?

[Bjauck]

...
Would you be reacting the same way if the new foreign relations minister was male with a tattoo?

Has there ever been a male Foreign Minister with an obvious visible facial tattoo from an OECD country?

[Balance]

No. You’re supposed to look past it because she is a human being and deserves a chance to prove she can do the job she has been tasked with. Do you think Kim Jung Un and Trump are judged because they are obese, or because they are dictators (one not quite there but getting closer every day) who suck at their jobs?

Would you be reacting the same way if the new foreign relations minister was male with a tattoo?

We live in the real world - not fantasy land like Cindy thinks the world does like in NZ.

Mahutu has her work cut out to get past the initial first impression of a sloppy looking uncouth unsophisticated foreign minister appointed simply because she is Maori.

Read Chris Trotter comments about whether she is even up to the job - let alone get past the unquestionably to be negative first impression.

What the heck was Cindy thinking when she appointed her as foreign minister?

[justakiwi]

I have no idea, but that’s not what I asked Balance. I asked him if he would be reacting this way if our new Foreign Relations Minister was male with cultural tattoos.

The fact that it may never have occurred before is irrelevant. The world is changing. Views are changing. Most people are becoming much more understanding and accepting of people from different cultures to their own. Which is a good thing and how it should be. Why is everybody so hung up about this woman’s race and physical appearance? Geez ... she hasn’t even started in her new role yet! Back off and let her get settled into the role before you start judging and attacking her. I am astounded that seemingly intelligent, grown men are so threatened and intimidated by women to the point where they resort to name calling and body shaming before she has had a chance to show she can (or can’t) do the job.

If she proves to be incapable of doing the job, then sure, you have grounds to criticise her on her performance, but until then, none of these comments are justified. You have all focussed on this minister because she is Māori, female, has a moko, and does not “fit” your narrow minded idea of what a minister should be or look like. I have heard Sweet Fanny Adams about any of the other ministers on the list. It’s shameful.

Has there ever been a male Foreign Minister with an obvious visible facial tattoo from an OECD country?

[fungus pudding]

I agree.

Seriously?

OK

Wow!?

Wow indeed.
Pity it's so difficult to travel overseas at present. You'll have to put any plans for a holiday to Somalia on hold.

[Bjauck]

...
The fact that it may never have occurred before is irrelevant. The world is changing. Views are changing. Most people are becoming much more understanding and accepting of people from different cultures to their own. ....

I am not saying that it is a bad thing. However I think it is very relevant if it has never occurred before. Groundbreakers can have a tough time. So it may well have an impact on how she my need to approach her role with certain foreign governments.

[Bjauck]

Wow indeed.
Pity it's so difficult to travel overseas at present. You'll have to put any plans for a holiday to Somaia on hold.

You are more funny when you try to correct granmar and punctuation!

[fungus pudding]

That’s total BS. I have no problem with diversity whatsoever. I do have a problem with fools and idiots, arrogance, narcissistic and misogynistic attitudes and behaviour, and racism.

What I meant was, because you are not influenced by the way people present themselves, you will not spot the danger signs. And while I agree that there are exceptions such as your furniture factory example (which even you realise is an exception or you wouldn't have mentioned it) I'd advise when asking for directions in Johannesburg just give a little thought to what you will have read in the paper that day. And after a week or os there I'm sure some of your decisions will be partially based on race.

[justakiwi]

I didn’t say I am never influenced by the way people present themselves. Of course I am, but I try very hard to then step back from my “first impression” of someone, to get a better idea of who they actually are. It is human nature to have a spontaneous reaction to physical appearance for example, but making a judgment based on first impressions, is something I try not to do. When I first joined ST I formed some first impressions of certain people, very quickly, but I gave them the benefit of the doubt until such time as it was blatantly clear that my first impressions were correct. My initial impression of some of you however, was entirely incorrect.

Spotting the danger signs is valid, but I don’t put myself in the kinds of situations where I generally need to do that, so not a particular concern for me.

What I meant was, because you are not influenced by the way people present themselves, you will not spot the danger signs.

Absolutely wrong. The reason I mentioned it was not because it was in any way an exception. I mentioned it purely to prove my point. I didn’t even know this guy was an ex bikie until months later. We had already formed a working relationship and he was, as I said, the only person in that factory who didn’t judge me. The culture in that factory was one I didn’t fit in with at all. All the staff knew that and treated me with disdain, simply because I didn’t do drugs, smoke, spend my breaks talking about who was ****ing who behind their missus’ back. They judged me based on my appearance/education/behaviour - not on my ability to do the job. The bikie guy didn’t. If anyone was justified in judging others it would be him. Bikies have been judged forever, and not all of it has been deserved.

And while I agree that there are exceptions such as your furniture factory example (which even you realise is an exception or you wouldn't have mentioned it)

Another country I have no desire to visit, and no, that decision is not based on race, but on race relations. There is a difference.

I'd advise when asking for directions in Johannesburg just give a little thought to what you will have read in the paper that day. And after a week or os there I'm sure some of your decisions will be partially based on race.