Labour govt 2020-23

[Blue Skies]

Care to elaborate?

Do you consider curtailments to Human Rights treasured by Western Democracies to be "way overdue"?

The way I see it, it's just about balancing the rights of Free Speech against the Rights of people or groups to live free from persecution & fear.
Sometimes these come into conflict & you can't completely impose the Rights of one over the top of the other, i.e. not all one way.

Of course it's incredibly complicated esp in this age of narcisism where there's an obsession about self & identity.
I read today an influencer saying if you can be trans-gender, you can now also apparently be trans-racial ie a British born & raised person deciding they will identify as Korean despite having no Korean relatives & never having been there. Really? At what point do you respect & validate their sense of self v responding they're completely neurotic?
And what about the Czech President calling Trans-Gender people disgusting, V the Pope's discrimination against LGBT people & rights & gays in the clergy & describing acts of homosexuality as a sin to millions of followers ? (as does Destiny Church's Bishop Tamaki from memory)
It's a minefield!

No wonder Adern & Fafoi are having trouble defining exactly what they believe will constitute Hate Speech, but isn't that what this review is all about, and importantly isn't it ultimately for the Courts to decide?

[jonu]

The way I see it, it's just about balancing the rights of Free Speech against the Rights of people or groups to live free from persecution & fear.
Sometimes these come into conflict & you can't completely impose the Rights of one over the top of the other, i.e. not all one way.

Of course it's incredibly complicated esp in this age of narcisism where there's an obsession about self & identity.
I read today an influencer saying if you can be trans-gender, you can now also apparently be trans-racial ie a British born & raised person deciding they will identify as Korean despite having no Korean relatives & never having been there. Really? At what point do you respect & validate their sense of self v responding they're completely neurotic?
And what about the Czech President calling Trans-Gender people disgusting, V the Pope's discrimination against LGBT people & rights & gays in the clergy & describing acts of homosexuality as a sin to millions of followers ? (as does Destiny Church's Bishop Tamaki from memory)
It's a minefield!

No wonder Adern & Fafoi are having trouble defining exactly what they believe will constitute Hate Speech, but isn't that what this review is all about, and importantly isn't it ultimately for the Courts to decide?

You raise some good points.

The "Korean trans-racial" is merely taking the whole trans farce to its logical conclusion.

The Catholic Church has been consistent for two thousand years in declaring homosexual acts sinful. Israel Folau (whose faith, incidently, teaches against the Catholics) paid a high price for merely quoting St Paul on a whole bunch of sinful behaviours, causing the ARU to have to settle out of Court. Neither party incites violence, it is their moral position.

You are correct, it is a minefield. It is also a problem that doesn't need fixing. We have laws covering incitement to violence. Ardern and Faafoi have no idea where it could lead.

As for it being for the Courts to decide....I expect a competent government to enact laws on the basis that they know what they are trying to protect or enforce, and have ensured there are no unintended consequences. At this point Ardern and Faafoi haven't come anywhere close.

[fungus pudding]

You raise some good points.

The "Korean trans-racial" is merely taking the whole trans farce to its logical conclusion.

The Catholic Church has been consistent for two thousand years in declaring homosexual acts sinful. Israel Folau (whose faith, incidently, teaches against the Catholics) paid a high price for merely quoting St Paul on a whole bunch of sinful behaviours, causing the ARU to have to settle out of Court. Neither party incites violence, it is their moral position.

You are correct, it is a minefield. It is also a problem that doesn't need fixing. We have laws covering incitement to violence. Ardern and Faafoi have no idea where it could lead.

As for it being for the Courts to decide....I expect a competent government to enact laws on the basis that they know what they are trying to protect or enforce, and have ensured there are no unintended consequences. At this point Ardern and Faafoi haven't come anywhere close.

Yeah, the catholic chuch does call homosexuals sinful, but that's not hate speech. Even the Pope's boss said he loved sinners. Ratbags and the goodies - one and all. Didn't hate anyone - it's in the book.

[Bjauck]

…
The Catholic Church has been consistent for two thousand years in declaring homosexual acts sinful. Israel Folau (whose faith, incidently, teaches against the Catholics) paid a high price for merely quoting St Paul on a whole bunch of sinful behaviours, causing the ARU to have to settle out of Court. Neither party incites violence, it is their moral position.…

Could you direct me to St Paul’s actual words that you claim Folau quoted. As I understand it, Folau added his own interpretation to a King James Bible verse he summarised.

[Bjauck]

…
The Catholic Church has been consistent for two thousand years in declaring homosexual acts sinful. Israel Folau (whose faith, incidently, teaches against the Catholics) paid a high price for merely quoting St Paul on a whole bunch of sinful behaviours, causing the ARU to have to settle out of Court. Neither party incites violence, it is their moral position.…

Could you direct me to St Paul’s actual words that you claim Folau quoted. As I understand it, Folau added his own interpretation to a King James Bible verse he summarised.

Roman Catholic teachings on homosexuality developed over time during the convocations of ecumenical councils.

[jonu]

And the hits just keep coming. David Seymour, who is proving to be one hell of an Opposition MP, further highlights the Separatist and racially discriminatory agenda of Ardern's government.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/natio...?ocid=msedgntp

Apparently racism is fine and dandy with Ardern and her cohort. To be encouraged. Even to the extent of making entirely unsubstantiated claims about "Maori businesses". What happened to people being engaged on the basis of merit rather than race?

[peetter]

Yeah, the catholic chuch does call homosexuals sinful, but that's not hate speech. Even the Pope's boss said he loved sinners. Ratbags and the goodies - one and all. Didn't hate anyone - it's in the book.

What approach has the other religion that calls homosexuals sinful?

It's easy to talk against Christians, because it's not seen as hatefull to dump on them.

Disclaimer. I belong to no religion, I find sky wizards are not needed anymore.

[fungus pudding]

What approach has the other religion that calls homosexuals sinful?

It's easy to talk against Christians, because it's not seen as hatefull to dump on them.

Disclaimer. I belong to no religion, I find sky wizards are not needed anymore.

I do not know. I'm an atheist Anyway I agree critisising or laughing at them is not hateful.

[peetter]

I do not know. I'm an atheist Anyway I agree critisising or laughing at them is not hateful.

So you'd say criticizing and laughing at let's say "non-binary" people would be considered as not hateful under the new law which seems to specificaly aim to protect them?

[jonu]

Could you direct me to St Paul’s actual words that you claim Folau quoted. As I understand it, Folau added his own interpretation to a King James Bible verse he summarised.

Roman Catholic teachings on homosexuality developed over time during the convocations of ecumenical councils.

Read Galatians and Corinthians. Folau may have paraphrased.

The theology behind Catholic teaching on homosexuality, adultery and the whole list, including a bunch people don't seem much interested in, developed over centuries, but the teaching itself goes all the way back, and was consistent with Jewish teaching of the time. Christ just made it clear you shouldn't be stoned to death for it.

Anyway, if the Qantas/Folau saga taught us anything, get ready to lose your job, get a hefty fine or serve jail time for holding and expressing a moral position against someone on the "protected" list. That's where Ardern is headed, whether she is smart enough to see it is the scariest part. She's either too stupid to see the unintended consequences, or the consequences aren't unintended.