Labour govt 2020-23

[Bjauck]

A double up of posts...

[Bjauck]

Quite sickening thread of posts. Who are you to assess other peoples value on the basis of not even properly calculating their tax payments? What is your worth to society?...
...
Ah yes - have a look at our debt load and just imagine how much fun it will be to pay that back wihtout adequate income from overseas ...

Attachment 12706

Good points. Panda-NZ's arguments remind me of the discussions I read in relation to Brexit - that immigrants took more from the UK than they gave back. In that case, research showed that the opposite was actually the case. That was just from a fiscal point of view. However, realities rarely trouble debates based on emotion.

Also NZ has a dearth of overseas based financial assets. So much of NZ's "wealth" is in NZ real estate. In fact so much of the NZ economy is overseas owned with earnings ending up accruing to the overseas owners. The mortgage boom inflating NZ real estate has helped Australian banks prosper from their NZ holdings.

[westerly]

The housing problem is a crisis, an absolute disgrace to Labour esp after all their confident promises to fix it. "In our Capital the number of people seeking emergency housing has tripled in a year." -all these children being brought up living in motels. "Home ownership is at a 70 year low."
NZ needs increasing home ownership rates & affordable housing, not more subsidies.

Good article by Andrea Vance

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...odity#comments

I do not think it is a disgrace to Labour although they should bite the bullet and introduce a heavy tax on property capital gains made on any sale outside of a legitimate family home.
The prime cause for the lack of affordable homes was the abolishment of State Advances and the M.O.W. Prior to that you could access a Govt. loan at a reasonable rate and there were subdivisions of bare sections where a basic house could be built leaving the garage, fencing, and section development to the buyer.
Now days developers have long realized there is far more money to be made selling fully landscaped homes to the top end of the market.
Just as with CGT any attempt to return to a system which served NZ well would be met with howls of misinformation and outrage from those who are creaming the less well off and demanding further tax cuts.

westerly

[Panda-NZ-]

Apart from that - at the moment is NZ with frightening speed racking up an enormous pile of debts. We are sort of maxing out our credit card and live nicely of the increasing debts. However - we will need to pay that money back, and we can't do that without reopening the borders (tourism, education, servicing our products abroad) - so maybe you better think next time before you post.

Again you seem to have trouble looking at international context.
Migration has impacts on the environment which are not addressed too.

The metric for NZ should be GDP per capita and not overall growth. The latter doesn't result in any improvement.

[Panda-NZ-]

The centre-left PM of denmark Mette Frederiksen has been tough on migration issues and it's worked well enough.

[iceman]

They take their wages overseas though, so I doubt it.
Employers may be better served to become more efficient so they wouldn't need more workers.

You are so out of your depth and probably the most uneducated poster on ST. I can only assume you are a paid (by Labour) troll

[Panda-NZ-]

They do take their wages overseas, and are unlikely to spend much outside rent so the GST calculation is a non-starter.

Feel free to address the facts at any point.

[Panda-NZ-]

Population growth rate by country (for international context):

EU: 0.1%
USA: 0.5%
Japan: -0.2%
China: 0.4%

It's clear to me where a significant part of the problem is I think. NZ leads the pack at 2.1% and it's not even close.

[peetter]

They do take their wages overseas, and are unlikely to spend much outside rent so the GST calculation is a non-starter.

Feel free to address the facts at any point.

Another completely wrong statement. First, there is a difference between migrant and seasonal worker. Second, most of the migrants do stay in NZ... otherwise you couldn't complain about them causing housing crisis. Third, even the seasonal workers spend most of the money they make in NZ on food, travel and services. Plus some of them stay, like me.

There's also a huge difference between illegal migration happening right now in Europe and legal migration in NZ.

[peetter]

They do take their wages overseas, and are unlikely to spend much outside rent so the GST calculation is a non-starter.

Feel free to address the facts at any point.

Another completely wrong statement. First, there is a difference between migrant and seasonal worker. Second, most of the migrants do stay in NZ... otherwise you couldn't complain about them causing housing crisis. Third, even the seasonal workers spend most of the money they make in NZ on food, travel and services. Plus some of them stay, like me.

There's also a huge difference between illegal migration happening right now in Europe and legal migration in NZ.