Labour govt 2020-23

[iceman]

Are you saying that NZers don't have a good working attitude because they do not want to work dawn-to-dusk 7 days a week for several months for wages and conditions poor workers from Pacific Islands tell you they are grateful for?

I can certainly see it is a way to denigrate and to try keep Kiwi workers in their place for the benefit of NZ plantation owners

Covid has certainly revealed that NZ had become dependant on the supply of poor young Pacific Islander seasonal workers. So young NZers trained and were employed in other fields. As these young NZers are becoming unemployed as a result of covid, they are then unfairly criticised for being lazy if they do not suddenly work for the plantation owners, who no longer have the same access to the foreign temporary workers.

You are totally twisting my words. I've given examples on these threads about the difficulty getting crew on fishing vessels and it certainly is not due to conditions or pay as you and others constantly and incorrectly claim on here. Same applies to horticulture, agriculture and now even stories about hospitality struggling to get staff. Meanwhile we have high unemployment and the country's finances out of control. Yes I think a lot of it has to do with laziness and an increasing culture of not wanting to work hard when benefits are readily available. The "team of 5 million" is not so enthusiastic about contributing to pull the country through our current predicament.

[Bjauck]

You are totally twisting my words. I've given examples on these threads about the difficulty getting crew on fishing vessels and it certainly is not due to conditions or pay as you and others constantly and incorrectly claim on here. Same applies to horticulture, agriculture and now even stories about hospitality struggling to get staff. Meanwhile we have high unemployment and the country's finances out of control. Yes I think a lot of it has to do with laziness and an increasing culture of not wanting to work hard when benefits are readily available. The "team of 5 million" is not so enthusiastic about contributing to pull the country through our current predicament.

So some employers who have been used to getting foreign workers in to work for pay and conditions that appeal to those foreigners, now find covid regulations make it difficult to do that. So NZers who have been used to working in different fields are now expected to step into those areas - with the pay and conditions that were satisfactory for those foreigners - previously occupied by the foreign fly-ins? It seems to me a totally unrealistic expectation from those employers.

[Bjauck]

... The "team of 5 million" is not so enthusiastic about contributing to pull the country through our current predicament.

Your "team of Five million" would be happy to share the windfall capital gains from dropping interest rates too to help their country pay back Covid debts?

[moka]

Poor things. No wonder Kiwis don't want to do this work. Yea right.
Stop justifying laziness moka ! If you're on the unemployment benefit and you are young and able, get of your arse and go and work. Very simple. Almost every restaurant here in Nelson is advertising for staff, but can't get good people. Add that to all the primary industries. WTF !!!!

Your very simple statement – “if you are on Jobseeker and are young and able get off your arse and go to work”, ignores the fact that it is not simple. It is complex and there are many reasons why people aren’t suitable for the available work, be it fishing, primary industries, hospitality.

35% of people on Jobseeker have a health or disability condition according to Lindsay Mitchell. But latest figures show 40% in Nelson. What used to be Sickness Benefit is now included in Jobseeker.
https://figure.nz/chart/LFqu54yxs5lkzxQE-lbu55DtuwNXpRFON

Nelson Region, New Zealand By age group, 2020 Q2, number of people receiving Jobseeker Support benefits = 2002 people (other chart says 1657 people)

18 -24yr = 24% = 485 but 40% have health condition or disability, = 291, 50% women who don’t want to work on a fishing boat = 145 people, some are in training, some are in part time work or so 100 people who might be available for work, but are they suitable for that particular work?

25 -39yr 29%
40 -54yr 25%
55 – 65yr 20%

https://figure.nz/chart/LFqu54yxs5lk...u55DtuwNXpRFON
https://figure.nz/chart/ZXKiIFIBwU7J...p8Wnljsvm9p8pa

[Zaphod]

Your very simple statement – “if you are on Jobseeker and are young and able get off your arse and go to work”, ignores the fact that it is not simple. It is complex and there are many reasons why people aren’t suitable for the available work, be it fishing, primary industries, hospitality.

35% of people on Jobseeker have a health or disability condition according to Lindsay Mitchell. But latest figures show 40% in Nelson. What used to be Sickness Benefit is now included in Jobseeker.
https://figure.nz/chart/LFqu54yxs5lkzxQE-lbu55DtuwNXpRFON

Nelson Region, New Zealand By age group, 2020 Q2, number of people receiving Jobseeker Support benefits = 2002 people (other chart says 1657 people)

18 -24yr = 24% = 485 but 40% have health condition or disability, = 291, 50% women who don’t want to work on a fishing boat = 145 people, some are in training, some are in part time work or so 100 people who might be available for work, but are they suitable for that particular work?

25 -39yr 29%
40 -54yr 25%
55 – 65yr 20%

https://figure.nz/chart/LFqu54yxs5lk...u55DtuwNXpRFON
https://figure.nz/chart/ZXKiIFIBwU7J...p8Wnljsvm9p8pa

I think iceman is alluding to that fact that these jobs could be filled by anyone throughout the country, not necessarily just those in Nelson itself. Some of my colleagues moved there over the uni holidays to earn some extra cash, working some crazy hours, but were well rewarded in the end.

[moka]

You are totally twisting my words. I've given examples on these threads about the difficulty getting crew on fishing vessels and it certainly is not due to conditions or pay as you and others constantly and incorrectly claim on here. Same applies to horticulture, agriculture and now even stories about hospitality struggling to get staff. Meanwhile we have high unemployment and the country's finances out of control. Yes I think a lot of it has to do with laziness and an increasing culture of not wanting to work hard when benefits are readily available. The "team of 5 million" is not so enthusiastic about contributing to pull the country through our current predicament.

Working on a fishing vessel doesn’t sound very attractive according to the government careers site. Not everyone is suitable, especially if they get seasick. It is work that appeals to a limited number of people. A few love it, but many of us would not enjoy it.

Chances of getting a job as a deckhand are good due to high turnover of staff.
may spend up to a week at a time at sea. Those on deep-sea fishing boats can spend 40 to 50 days at sea, working six hours on, six hours off
work in all types of weather conditions, including hazardous, very rough seas
may travel to different ports around New Zealand. Those working on deep-sea fishing boats may fish in the South Pacific or Southern Ocean
https://www.careers.govt.nz/jobs-dat...tics/deckhand/

[blackcap]

Working on a fishing vessel doesn’t sound very attractive according to the government careers site. Not everyone is suitable, especially if they get seasick. It is work that appeals to a limited number of people. A few love it, but many of us would not enjoy it.

Chances of getting a job as a deckhand are good due to high turnover of staff.
may spend up to a week at a time at sea. Those on deep-sea fishing boats can spend 40 to 50 days at sea, working six hours on, six hours off
work in all types of weather conditions, including hazardous, very rough seas
may travel to different ports around New Zealand. Those working on deep-sea fishing boats may fish in the South Pacific or Southern Ocean
https://www.careers.govt.nz/jobs-dat...tics/deckhand/

Cry me a river. So what if its not attractive or enjoyable. Many people do not enjoy their work but do have the responsibility to go out and do it even if they do not like it because they need to provide for their family. What a weak and sick society we have bred and created with all this welfare and entitlement.

[moka]

I think it is very difficult to say if there will be a long term impact from this debacle, although it is quite possible that a more negative sentiment towards the practice of using foreign crew may develop, even within Government.
I do note that these vessels have historically been used to catch significant amounts of lower value species such as mackerel that Kiwi boats have not targeted to any large degree due to poor economics. But they also catch species like hoki and squid.
All of these vessels are NZ flagged, after a law change some years ago but obviously you will not get Kiwis on these boats when the likes of Sealords advertise for crew with an ability to speak Russian !! But because they are NZ flagged, NZ laws, including employment law, applies to them and that includes minimum wages. So the Russian fishermen are not "slave labour" by any stretch of the imagination.

It should be noted that Sanford has NZ crew on their own vessels (not sure if they still charter a Korean vessel with Korean crew) and Talley's always crew all of their vessels with NZ crew. Sealord has a couple of these Russians, Independent Fisheries 3 I think and Maruha also uses only foreign crew (like Independent). Sadly Sealord also has a significant part of the crew foreign, on their new and flash vessel Tokatu. This is due to the fact that it is near on impossible to get keen, reliable young Kiwis to work in the sector. They don't want to go away for many weekends and they don't want to be subjected to random drug tests.
People often say that is due to low earnings but I don't agree. An unqualified 18 yo hard worker can go out on the factory trawlers (5 weeks trips) and work for 6 months of the year starting at $40-50k. No food or accommodation costs for those 6 months. If they work hard, the companies will pay for them to go to various courses and I know of a boy here in Nelson that had his full Qualified Fishing Deckhand after 3 years and earning $70k p.a. for 6 months work. Another became a factory manager after 5 years on around $120k. So there are opportunities for people to do well in the industry but people are not available. There is a crewing crisis in the industry.

Sadly, until we change the attitudes and get young people interested in hard physical work again, foreign crewed vessels will always be part of the industry.

On the SANford thread you posted that “but obviously you will not get Kiwis on these boats when the likes of Sealords advertise for crew with an ability to speak Russian !!”
I noticed a few years ago an ad for workers in a Kiwifruit packhouse saying 12 hour shifts. A lot of women with children worked in packhouses but 12 hour shifts exclude them. So by having the power to set employment conditions employers can say we have no suitable NZ applicants and then get RSE workers who will work longer and harder than Kiwis, so it is more profitable for businesses to employ RSE staff. It does keep the cost of food down, but it also drives down wages and creates unemployment.

[moka]

Cry me a river. So what if its not attractive or enjoyable. Many people do not enjoy their work but do have the responsibility to go out and do it even if they do not like it because they need to provide for their family. What a weak and sick society we have bred and created with all this welfare and entitlement.

I am not a believer in the protestant work ethic also called Calvinist or puritan where hard work is a signifier of one's salvation and that diligence in one's work is pleasing to God. Who wants to be a martyr, suffer on earth and receive your reward in heaven?

I don’t subscribe to beliefs that life should be hard and men should be tough and just get on with it. Attitudes like that lead to drug and alcohol addictions, depression, mental health issues and suicide, and a host of other social problems.

Some people are not in jobs that are attractive or enjoyable which is tolerable for a short time if you expect to move on to something better, but intolerable if you are trapped in such a job.
Not liking your job is okay, but hating your job is not. I have talked to retired men who hated most if not all their jobs. What sort of life is that? Welfare and human rights are the signs of a civilised society.

[couta1]

Cry me a river. So what if its not attractive or enjoyable. Many people do not enjoy their work but do have the responsibility to go out and do it even if they do not like it because they need to provide for their family. What a weak and sick society we have bred and created with all this welfare and entitlement.

Yes imagine if everyone just gave up on their marriage when tough times arrive and its not as enjoyable as it was or should be, actually that happens a lot in this new PC bull**** society.