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  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonu View Post
    Not really blackcap. There's an awful lot of letters missing from that alphabet soup. By the way....do gingers count as POC? (asking for a friend).

    Lest we forget....all folks who look the same think the same according to leftie identity politics....not that they are racist or misogynist or anything. Couldn't be...that would be problematic wouldn't it?
    I reckon we should put our hand up and take The Donald off the USA's hands. Maybe we would get first dibs on Pfizer's Covid vaccine as a thankyou gift.

    Donald Trump as Governor-General would act as lightening rod for both demonstrators and other bigots alike. He would plonk a golf course on Ihumatao land. In the meantime the government would quietly go about its business spreading sweetness and light.

  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    Moral question from the hijab wearing Cindy (even after there were pleadings for her not to wear it again) - the hijab is the symbol of oppression in some Muslim countries like Iran?

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world...headscarf.html

    "An Iranian woman who removed her headscarf in protest has been jailed for 24 years. It comes after three Iranian women were also given lengthy prison sentences for publicly protesting against the compulsory wearing of veils earlier this month."

    Rich, very very rich from the cynical one who only knows morality when it suits her popularity.

    Where are her morals when she decided to ignore the oppression of these women when the issue was brought to her notice?

    She is disgusting beyond contempt.
    Jacinda wore the hijab to show respect and support. In an interview Jacinda said “I gave it very little thought to do it. It was so obvious to me. It gave women in the community a sense of security that it is safe to wear the hijab in the community.”

    So while you focus on women in other countries Muslim women in New Zealand get harassed for wearing a hijab so she was focusing on what happens in New Zealand and supporting those women who choose to wear a hijab here. Some women choose to wear a hijab and some women choose not to. And in both cases men are telling women what to wear, what to do, and wanting to control them, to oppress them rather than let women choose to do what they want.

    Your comment that she is disgusting beyond contempt is more a reflection about you and your attitude towards some women than it a factual comment about her.

    https://twitter.com/theprojecttv/sta...99877105532929

  3. #223
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    You are like a dog with a bone sometimes Balance. People have tried to explain this to you in numerous occasions but you simply choose not to “get it.”

    I don’t support the oppression of women by men, or any other kind of oppression for that matter. But if people belonging to a particular culture or religion, are happy and safe living in that kind of environment, that is their decision to make. I watched a lot of the TV footage at the time of the Christchurch terror attacks. I did not see even one instance of physical intimidation, or any sign of any woman appearing fearful of the men they were with. Quite the opposite. I saw families of husbands and wives and children, embracing each other, comforting each other and demonstrating love and kindness towards each other. I made a point of looking for oppressive behaviours and saw none. Same thing at subsequent community services that were held at various times. Yes, there are always going to be men who abuse, intimidate or control their wives. Plenty of Kiwi men fall into this category without any cultural or religious influences. You only have to look at our domestic violence rates to know that. Many white, Kiwi women live in an oppressive marriage or relationship, and more than a few women and children die every year at the hands of those men.

    Your beliefs about the hijab are false. Yes, women are “directed” to wear them, but they do not all choose to do this as moka has pointed out. Jacinda’ s wearing of the hijab was a mark of respect to Muslim women in NZ, and the Muslim community were consulted beforehand. Did you even watch any of the interactions between Jacinda and Muslim women on TV? Unlike you, they fully understood and appreciated her genuine compassion and the humanity she showed them. The fact that you still, for some unfathomable reason, cannot see that, says more about you than it does about Jacinda. She is the least cynical, the least dishonest, the least manipulative politician/PM we have seen in this country for years. The rest of the world is intelligent enough to see that - but not you. Jacinda, just like the rest of us, is not perfect. But she is not the woman you try to convince us she is. You could not be more wrong in your judgment of her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    Moral question from the hijab wearing Cindy (even after there were pleadings for her not to wear it again) - the hijab is the symbol of oppression in some Muslim countries like Iran?

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world...headscarf.html

    "An Iranian woman who removed her headscarf in protest has been jailed for 24 years. It comes after three Iranian women were also given lengthy prison sentences for publicly protesting against the compulsory wearing of veils earlier this month."

    Rich, very very rich from the cynical one who only knows morality when it suits her popularity.

    Where are her morals when she decided to ignore the oppression of these women when the issue was brought to her notice?

    She is disgusting beyond contempt.

  4. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    You are like a dog with a bone sometimes Balance. People have tried to explain this to you in numerous occasions but you simply choose not to “get it.”

    I don’t support the oppression of women by men, or any other kind of oppression for that matter. But if people belonging to a particular culture or religion, are happy and safe living in that kind of environment, that is their decision to make. I watched a lot of the TV footage at the time of the Christchurch terror attacks. I did not see even one instance of physical intimidation, or any sign of any woman appearing fearful of the men they were with. Quite the opposite. I saw families of husbands and wives and children, embracing each other, comforting each other and demonstrating love and kindness towards each other. I made a point of looking for oppressive behaviours and saw none. Same thing at subsequent community services that were held at various times. Yes, there are always going to be men who abuse, intimidate or control their wives. Plenty of Kiwi men fall into this category without any cultural or religious influences. You only have to look at our domestic violence rates to know that. Many white, Kiwi women live in an oppressive marriage or relationship, and more than a few women and children die every year at the hands of those men.

    Your beliefs about the hijab are false. Yes, women are “directed” to wear them, but they do not all choose to do this as moka has pointed out. Jacinda’ s wearing of the hijab was a mark of respect to Muslim women in NZ, and the Muslim community were consulted beforehand. Did you even watch any of the interactions between Jacinda and Muslim women on TV? Unlike you, they fully understood and appreciated her genuine compassion and the humanity she showed them. The fact that you still, for some unfathomable reason, cannot see that, says more about you than it does about Jacinda. She is the least cynical, the least dishonest, the least manipulative politician/PM we have seen in this country for years. The rest of the world is intelligent enough to see that - but not you. Jacinda, just like the rest of us, is not perfect. But she is not the woman you try to convince us she is. You could not be more wrong in your judgment of her.
    I would disagree with you about the least manipulative politician bit, she exercises a subtle control of the populous, she is basically a new age communist ie the old lie in a new package.
    Last edited by couta1; 10-11-2020 at 07:01 PM.

  5. #225
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    You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I 100% disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by couta1 View Post
    I would disagree with you about the least manipulative politician bit, she exercises a subtle control of the populous, she is basically a new age communist ie the old lie in a new package.

  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by moka View Post
    On the SANford thread you posted that “but obviously you will not get Kiwis on these boats when the likes of Sealords advertise for crew with an ability to speak Russian !!”
    I noticed a few years ago an ad for workers in a Kiwifruit packhouse saying 12 hour shifts. A lot of women with children worked in packhouses but 12 hour shifts exclude them. So by having the power to set employment conditions employers can say we have no suitable NZ applicants and then get RSE workers who will work longer and harder than Kiwis, so it is more profitable for businesses to employ RSE staff. It does keep the cost of food down, but it also drives down wages and creates unemployment.
    You are right that I wrote on the SAN thread that Sealords have advertised for "Russian language" crew on particular vessels. But they also have many NZ crewed vessels that they can not properly crew today. You and I have very different ideas on work and what conditions are acceptable and what is not and will obviously never agree on this issue. I maintain that young people should be forced into work rather than sit on benefits when they are fully able. In one of your post you show that 35% (40% in Nelson) claim to have some health condition or disability. Call me a sceptic but I do not believe such numbers but clearly shows that a significant proportion of so called "jobseekers" have no intention of going to work

  7. #227
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    Some, maybe quite a few, on Jobseeker benefit with a health or disability issue will have addiction or mental health issues. Coupled with low skills and possibly low motivation these are not prime candidates. There is talk from time to time about rehab or therapy, but that is expensive and often not successful, so simpler and cheaper to let them stay on JS unless or until they can be moved onto the permanent Supported Living Payment or turn 65.

    Iceman, the problem with forcing able people off the sofa and into work is that there needs to be employers willing to hire them. If they are high maintenance that's usually a no.

  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by couta1 View Post
    I would disagree with you about the least manipulative politician bit, she exercises a subtle control of the populous, she is basically a new age communist ie the old lie in a new package.
    Every government exercises “subtle control of the populace” and not so subtle control too. Previous National PMs have been every bit as “communist” according to your definition.

    Of course without some control there would be chaos. Of course, there are some chaos and catastrophe capitalists who may relish that prospect.

  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    You are right that I wrote on the SAN thread that Sealords have advertised for "Russian language" crew on particular vessels. But they also have many NZ crewed vessels that they can not properly crew today. You and I have very different ideas on work and what conditions are acceptable and what is not and will obviously never agree on this issue. I maintain that young people should be forced into work rather than sit on benefits when they are fully able. In one of your post you show that 35% (40% in Nelson) claim to have some health condition or disability. Call me a sceptic but I do not believe such numbers but clearly shows that a significant proportion of so called "jobseekers" have no intention of going to work
    Calling it Jobseeker is a misnomer for some people as Jobseeker now includes “sickness benefit”, where people have a medical certificate saying they can’t work. But calling it Jobseeker helps reinforce the perception that people on benefits are lazy and don’t want to work.

    About 215,000 people with disabilities would like to have a job. Some but not all would be on Jobseeker.

    Disabled Persons Assembly (DPA) New Zealand is tackling the disproportionate rate of unemployment for disabled people by launching Mahi Tika – Equity in Employment, an employment programme to be trialed in the Waikato region.
    There are approximately 290,000 people aged 15-64 with access, support, or health needs in New Zealand who are not currently in work.

    Only 22% of disabled people are employed compared to 70% of the general population, while 74% of those disabled people who are not currently in work would like to have a job if one was available, according to the Government’s recently released Employment Action Plan ‘Working Matters’.
    http://www.dpa.org.nz/newshtml/media-release-disabled-persons-assembly-launches-employment-project-in-waikato

    At the end of the June 2020 190,456​ people were getting Jobseeker Support, up from 136,233​ at the end of June last year, figures released by the Ministry of Social Development show.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/122095970/jobseeker-numbers-topped-201000-in-june-and-more-joblosses-expected

    Disabled people are identified as those who have at least a lot of difficulty in one or more of six specified activities. These activities are: seeing (even with glasses), hearing (even with hearing aids), walking or climbing stairs, remembering or concentrating, self-care, and communicating.
    https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/disab...-to-be-in-work

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemis View Post
    Some, maybe quite a few, on Jobseeker benefit with a health or disability issue will have addiction or mental health issues. Coupled with low skills and possibly low motivation these are not prime candidates. There is talk from time to time about rehab or therapy, but that is expensive and often not successful, so simpler and cheaper to let them stay on JS unless or until they can be moved onto the permanent Supported Living Payment or turn 65.

    Iceman, the problem with forcing able people off the sofa and into work is that there needs to be employers willing to hire them. If they are high maintenance that's usually a no.
    People with mental conditions make up the largest proportion of people receiving the Jobseeker Support – Health Condition or Disability (JS-HCD) and Supported Living Payment (SLP) benefits

    The proportion of people receiving benefits for health conditions or disabilities is high.
    Unemployment is often detrimental to wellbeing. Recipients of health and disability benefits now make up the largest group of working-age benefit recipients.

    The population on benefit for reasons of ill health or disability has changed. It has increased since the 1980s and proportionately more people now receive benefits for health conditions or disabilities because they have mental health conditions.

    Current state: the welfare system and people with health ...

    www.weag.govt.nz › HCD-and-welfare-system-010419

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