Labour govt 2020-23

[BlackPeter]

I asked who would advocate for such a pre European society, so thanks for nominating yourself.

Thanks for completely side stepping my other points and list of benefits that colonisation introduced to NZ.

If I roll over and die on my points you have questioned, because I dont want to be typing here all day, the consensus between us is still that colonistion was a nett benefit to Maori, not the negative some portray.

Good on ya mate.

Where do you see race relations in NZ in 100 years from now?

Your historical understanding is clearly very limited and deeply biased. As a starter - NZ was never a colony, even if the British over some time clearly behaved like colonisers ... and yes - do some reading about the history of European colonialism - it is a dark chapter in our history full of dead and exploited people and blood spilled all over the floor.

Did humanity benefit from industrialisation and modern medicine? It depends whom you ask, but for the majority of people alive today (no matter whether they are white or brown) clearly yes. Has though nothing to do with colonisation which throughout history always used to be the subjugation and exploitation of the weaker group through the stronger group of people ... Law of the jungle.

Did Maoris benefit from being cheated and killed? Well, the ones which were cheated, suppressed and killed by the Brits probably not.

Do the surviving Maoris live today a better life than they would have had without any contact to the Europeans? Hard to measure. How do you define a good life? Life Expectancy? Freedom to choose? Self determination? The right to use their property as they see fit? The right to use the property we stole and cheated from their ancestors as they see fit? Pride? Education? Respect in the society? Happy family life?

I suppose measured in some of these categories (and there will be many more) do they live these days a better life and in some a worse. Maybe we should ask them how they feel? Obviously - we can't ask the ones who died.

How do I see race relations in 100 years? Not sure this is a NZ specific question, but world wide is the reproduction rate of people of European descent below the rate to keep the population constant while the reproduction rate of many brown and black populations is well above this rate. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to extrapolate what this means for the future.

100 years are four generations or so, and at that stage the power balance as a consequence of this process will look quite different - in NZ as well as in the world. I do hope that the Europeans still manage to set up a fair system for races to live peacefully and respectfully with each other ... otherwise the stronger and more populous populations will do this for us, probably based on the experiences they had with us, the ex-colonisers.

I hope that we will be able to create a fair system, but if I listen to all the white superiorists and racists, than I do have my doubts it will work out well for us. I just hope that the people with darker skin don't treat our descendants in the same way we used to treat their parents.

Better would be if I could wish for the people with darker skin treating our children at that stage the same way as we treated them ... but I think in this case the Europeans need to change some things - and fast.

[Panda-NZ-]

I hope that we will be able to create a fair system, but if I listen to all the white superiorists and racists, than I do have my doubts it will work out well for us. I just hope that the people with darker skin don't treat our descendants in the same way we used to treat their parents.

People can still divide and rule for many years within a democratic system. Ie how the US ends up with a business rich list of white male elites, and judges of the same type.

[Bjauck]

People can still divide and rule for many years within a democratic system. Ie how the US ends up with a business rich list of white male elites, and judges of the same type.

SA Afrikaaner and NZ Pakeha: a major difference is that Pakeha is part of the majority ethnic grouping in their country, which persists (still) to this day.

[Panda-NZ-]

Lots of others too in NZ, asians, pacific islanders etc.

Some of these groups could be growing even faster than maori.

[fungus pudding]

Just reflecting on that song and the changing times. It was released in the mid 60s and acheived moderate success, when Rod Derrett was riding high with several spoof/comic type songs.
Generally it was accepted until almost 40 years later, 2004, someone decided to be offended and complained to the broadcasting authority.
The authority reviewed it and deemed it a novelty song, acceptable for radio play.
Would they make the same decision now - 17 years on?? There's something to ponder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lltk...ltk5zUgXZY&t=6

Another song, initially a hit was Howard Morrison's take on Ahab the Arab. Morrison came up with Mori - the Hori.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO3lcUK029s

Several years later it was re-recorded as 'Howie - the Mowie'.
Feel free to be offended.

And then there was Lou and Simon with a rework of Trini Lopez's 'I'd like to be in America'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VJfEGZRmPU

[macduffy]

Nothing to be said about the Labour govt?

This thread seems to be drifting further and further away from its subject.

[Balance]

Nothing to be said about the Labour govt?

This thread seems to be drifting further and further away from its subject.

Cindy says COVID for Christmas for South Islanders.

[Bjauck]

Nothing to be said about the Labour govt?

This thread seems to be drifting further and further away from its subject.

Yep diversion was a way of coping with an unfolding mushroom cloud. We should face up to the imploding Labour government policy as we face up to the consequences of a late vaccination program and epidemic spread from porous boundaries and a gently-gently approach to gangs and rule breakers.

[Getty]

Nothing to be said about the Labour govt?

This thread seems to be drifting further and further away from its subject.

Not at all.

It's very much about the Labour party and its race based agenda's, much of which was not released prior to election.

[fungus pudding]

That would have been too mild? Europeans used burning slowly at the stake, the rack, the Iron Maiden (not the musicians!) and let's not forget the depraved hanging, drawing and quartering amongst other disgusting treatments of their prisoners. Now let us discuss who was civilised?

Certainly not the Maoris - which is not a criticism, but an observation. They lagged far behind most of the world in transport, science, communication and so much else that civilisation brought us; their political structure was tribal, they had no written language in much the same way as so much the world once lagged behind the mighty Roman Empire and their contribution to civilisation.
Stable food supply. Here are seven marks of a civilised society.
Social structure.
System of government.
Religious system.
Highly developed culture.
Advances in technology.
Highly developed written language.

Google define civilisation and you will find various definitions similat to above. Your question - 'who was more civilised? ' It's a no-contest.