Labour govt 2020-23

[peetter]

Rubbish. Try it and you'll see.

I agree, nearly impossible as you'd have to live of NZX growth stock. Dividends are taxed, foreign shares too and property is tax free only if you're owner, so whatever you gain in capital while selling would go into new house again. Refinancing wouldn't work as well, because you'd be stopped by servicing.

[dobby41]

Rubbish. Try it and you'll see.

I agree, nearly impossible as you'd have to live of NZX growth stock. Dividends are taxed, foreign shares too and property is tax free only if you're owner, so whatever you gain in capital while selling would go into new house again. Refinancing wouldn't work as well, because you'd be stopped by servicing.

I was probably a bit loose with the 'no tax at all' as (and I've said this before) there is some residual dividend income - though this is imputed if a NZ share.

FP - why is it impossible? As I've posited before, say you have a share portfolio worth $1mil what's to stop you selling 10% every year for the next 10 years?
No tax on that.
In the meantime, it will grow a bit with capital gain (they were brought to keep but times have changed - do you keep all your shares forever) to extend past 10 years.
IRD doesn't insist that you have enough taxable income to 'live on' - not part of their remit.
You seem to have missed a trick in how the wealthy have a good life but pay little tax.

[fungus pudding]

I agree, nearly impossible as you'd have to live of NZX growth stock. Dividends are taxed, foreign shares too and property is tax free only if you're owner, so whatever you gain in capital while selling would go into new house again. Refinancing wouldn't work as well, because you'd be stopped by servicing.

Also you have to be living off something. If you are selling shares or assetts as a means of earning to fund necessities - it's income.

[Getty]

I was probably a bit loose with the notax at all...
You seem to have missed a trick in how the wealthy have a good life but pay little tax.

You seem to have missed a trick, where the wealthy pay a disproportinate amount of tax to the govt, compared to the benefits they get back, compared to any other citizen.

What thanks do they ever get?

[fungus pudding]

I was probably a bit loose with the 'no tax at all' as (and I've said this before) there is some residual dividend income - though this is imputed if a NZ share.

FP - why is it impossible? As I've posited before, say you have a share portfolio worth $1mil what's to stop you selling 10% every year for the next 10 years?
No tax on that.
In the meantime, it will grow a bit with capital gain (they were brought to keep but times have changed - do you keep all your shares forever) to extend past 10 years.
IRD doesn't insist that you have enough taxable income to 'live on' - not part of their remit.
You seem to have missed a trick in how the wealthy have a good life but pay little tax.

Of course they don't insist on having enough to live on, but if you regularly sell assetts because you have insufficient other funds to live on - you are liable for income tax.
If you do as you suggest, i.e. sell off 10% of shares annually to provide your living - that's your income - and income is taxed. Argue it out with the taxman if you don't believe me.

[dobby41]

Of course they don't insist on having enough to live on, but if you regularly sell assetts because you have insufficient other funds to live on - you are liable for income tax.
If you do as you suggest, i.e. sell off 10% of shares annually to provide your living - that's your income - and income is taxed. Argue it out with the taxman if you don't believe me.

Show me the Tax rule that says that.
It doesn't exist - there is no capital gains tax.
Converting Capital Gains into spending money doesn't suddenly make it taxable income - it is still just converting capital.

I agree with you in a logical sense but that isn't how the tax laws are written.

[dobby41]

You seem to have missed a trick, where the wealthy pay a disproportinate amount of tax to the govt, compared to the benefits they get back, compared to any other citizen.

What thanks do they ever get?

Haven't missed it - it is what it is and nothing I can do about it so I don't dwell on it.
No one has thanked me for the tax I pay but such is life.

[peetter]

You seem to have missed a trick in how the wealthy have a good life but pay little tax.

You mean how top 3% earners pay the same amount of tax as bottom 71% in NZ based on statistics from 2019/2020 tax year?

[Getty]

You mean how top 3% earners pay the same amount of tax as bottom 71% in NZ based on statistics from 2019/2020 tax year?

And when they get a $35000+ medical operation, more likely to be paid for by the medical insurance they pay into, not the taxpayer.

Oh, and all those Oranga Tamariki interventions, placements, is that the rich end of town?.

Legal Aid, Courts, imprisonments, the list goes on and on.

The Gst on a $15 pizza 3X the $5 one from another chain, oh oops, I've got that wrong, which demographic floods the KFC stores?

Ah, the wonders of a socialist society eh?

[peetter]

FP - why is it impossible? As I've posited before, say you have a share portfolio worth $1mil what's to stop you selling 10% every year for the next 10 years?
No tax on that.
In the meantime, it will grow a bit with capital gain (they were brought to keep but times have changed - do you keep all your shares forever) to extend past 10 years.

Because no-one in their right mind will bet their life only on NZX growth stocks. People who actually live of investments will have a diverse portfolio containing mostly of low risk, high dividend geared stock. On top of that, most people will also own foreign shares to diversify.