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  1. #521
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    I always thought that the councils took huge amounts off subdivision developers for the infrastructure costs.

  2. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by 777 View Post
    I always thought that the councils took huge amounts off subdivision developers for the infrastructure costs.
    They do - and the developers then charge the buyer. So an asset that should last 50+ years is paid for up front - hence the high cost of sections.
    The developers also paid the land owner heaps because the land value suddenly went up when it was re-zoned.

  3. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    I'm not sure artemis appreciates being called a Sir !!
    Heh, thinking about transitioning as then I get to be a victim and this kind government will tip loads of dosh my way.

  4. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by 777 View Post
    I always thought that the councils took huge amounts off subdivision developers for the infrastructure costs.
    For a 600k priced unit (inc GST), the infrastructure cost allocation is around 25k of that total pricing structure.

  5. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by dobby41 View Post
    We have issues around peoples expectations.
    The 50's build was interesting - produced a huge number of houses that looked the same but people were happy with that, now the bitch and moan.
    Take some of peoples unearned profit (land value change) and they will be called Communist.
    Import labour - you did see how the migrant labour were housed in Singapore? And the Covid infection rate - over half got infected. Probably not the conditions that would be acceptable here.
    It is hard to take different countries systems piecemeal and expect the same outcomes.

    Having said that - more could be done.
    Apprentices is a good start.
    Overcome the infrastructure financing issues would help.
    Break the materials strangle-hold the current players have - the Govt could import materials in bulk for their jobs (has to still be BRANZ approved of course - we don't want to cut corners and create the next 'leaky home' like disaster).
    Why do we have to blindly follow other countries' policies and said practices? We learn, adapt and do even better.

    Currently, housing solutions are all piecemeal and ad his with no defined outcomes - just more state dependency and despondency.

    Think of what the billions of dollars wasted each year on rental subsidies and emergency accommodation could be used for - a huge pool of funds to properly build houses on an ongoing basis and long term solution.
    Last edited by Balance; 22-01-2021 at 09:26 AM.

  6. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    Building up or out - costs will be the same as high rises are expensive to build! Ask any apartment and high rise developers! ....
    There is a potential maybe actual issue with high rise. People don't want to live in them. In the past investors have bought them as rentals, and if that slows then developers will not be able to finance the project. Dead in the water. The government has set aside a few hundred mill to prop up developers but who knows what that impact will be.

    Investors have been buying up at similar rate to the last few years, except for the last couple of months when sales to the sector have been up. Why? Because LVRs are back in a few weeks and the government has announced there is a plan to have a plan (to have a plan?) to fix a housing crisis. Good chance that will impact 'evil and greedy landlords' (called speculators by politicians) so best to hop in now.

    Even terrace housing is struggling to sell, as witness hundreds of apparently affordable Kiwibuild homes available to buy but selling ever so slowly with hundreds more under construction. And some being bought by taxpayers probably for social housing.

  7. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    Why do we have to blindly follow other countries' policies and said practices? We learn, adapt and do even better.

    Currently, housing solutions are all piecemeal and ad his with no defined outcomes - just more state dependency and despondency.

    Think of what the billions of dollars wasted each year on rental subsidies and emergency accommodation could be used for - a huge pool of funds to properly build houses on an ongoing basis and long term solution.
    Emergency accommodation is wasted in the sense that it would be better to have real houses instead. But you can't divert that emergency money into houses as then there would be a bunch of people on the street in the meantime (while the houses were built).
    Rental subsidies of some sort will always be necessary as part of the welfare state - unless we pay people more and many don't seem to like that idea (people against raising the minimum wage).

    Not a simple problem and there won't be a simple solution.

  8. #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by dobby41 View Post
    Emergency accommodation is wasted in the sense that it would be better to have real houses instead. But you can't divert that emergency money into houses as then there would be a bunch of people on the street in the meantime (while the houses were built).....
    Tens of thousands of vacant rentals, homes for sale (including Kiwibuild) and ads for flatmates. Maybe those in emergency housing should be supported into some of them. Cheaper than motels. And they are already there and built right now.

    Maybe it is not so much an actual shortage then.

  9. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by dobby41 View Post
    I agree that the rent subsidies are wrong.
    The Govt should house those who can't afford a real rent (or help social housing providers do it).
    The private sector should house the rest - students, those just starting out, more wealthy people who don't want to buy or are between houses etc.

    I believe that what the RBNZ does is part of market forces.
    I believe that what the RBNZ does is part of market forces.

    You cannot be serious. You really cannot. Whenever market forces look like tipping the balance in the buyers favour, we get this 'Deus ex Machina' of the Reserve Bank swooping in from the heavens and lowering interest rates, and now printing money - to the tune of $100 Billion to fund government spending and $28 Billion to retail banks for so-called 'Funding for Lending'....basically being pumped straight into the property market & bypassing savers / depositors.

    This is not market forces. It really isn't. If the market was allowed to do it's own thing without the high-handed / heavy handed intervention at the stroke of a computer keyboard, then rising interest rates would be rewarding savers and bond holders & curbing speculative investment. This would quickly moderate house prices and start to restore the (broken) balance between saving and lending.

    We see another poster saying "they had to do it, otherwise recession". We have made recession a dirty word, some monstrous thing that must not be allowed. Recessions are usually short and sharp, are nowhere near as bad as the hysterics make out, and offer the chance of 'creative destruction' and renewal. Bad businesses fail, malinvestment is punished, and the economic up-tick that results does so with the economy in a stronger position.

    This is the steady creeping of the aims of socialism: something failing due to a bad choice is 'unfair', therefore we must extend the blanket of socialism across all households and businesses when it comes to the consequences of their capitalistic endeavours. Everyone will be bailed-out if things go wrong.

    With the economic cycle being suppressed, it becomes constipated with debt: we are just headed for stagnation as we move forward loaded down with debt and with no incentive to save or to invest in the productive parts of the economy.

    Now we come to the politicians meddling in all of this: Labour changed the mandate of the Reserve Bank to include full employmrent as one of its prime goals. So now the Reserve Bank must act to defeat the economic cycle. What was previously the preserve of the government via economic policy has now been pushed on to the Reserve Bank, muddling their focus with both inflation & employment targets.

    We have moved to a system of "full Keynes, all the time" - rather than dealing with a clear recession with a short, sharp burst of government spending, economists and the government and Reserve Bank feel they have to throw the kitchen sink at it every time GDP figures start to dip. They are clearly over-egging the pudding, and we see the consequences in out fo control asset prices.

    So this is not market forces as all. It is the exact opposite. It is total control by the state, in an increasing - and ultimately futile - effort to defeat the economic cycle.
    Last edited by Logen Ninefingers; 22-01-2021 at 10:41 AM.

  10. #530
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    The alternative is deflation and the effects of that.
    The current policy is good all round but there are side effects. I'd rather have that problem than everything else though.

    For many kiwis housing is their retirement plan and they don't really want it solved. Similar to australia and the UK in this respect.

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