Labour govt 2020-23

[Getty]

Lets have some more $610k pa per employee marae clean up jobs, as per TV3 news tonight.

Beats share investing for a living eh?

[Balance]

“8 days before the election, the Govt bribed voters with $100m and the promise of 3100 jobs to repair marae. Figures obtained by @actparty show that just 158 full-time jobs (5%) have been created. Extraordinary.”

Another massive fail like Kiwibuild with Cindy.

Disgusting woman.

[SBQ]

This seems like an exceptionally short-sighted move that is likely to alienate their supports, the unions, and any up and coming talent within the public sector will depart for greener pastures where salaries are rising. What about those who have found themselves on salaries that are now exceptionally close to the every rising minimum wage, but who will not be afforded a increase in pay? To those in the public sector, the effect of this amounts to three years of pay decreases.

I see Balance likes to refer Jacinda Ardern as "disgusting". Fair comment. But I don't think she's really been that bad for NZ. She did the gov't workers pay freeze last year during the COVID lockdowns, i'm sure her cabinet ministers are well use to what she's like and aren't surprised that their pay is frozen. Personally I don't support the view that gov't workers should be paid more than the private sector worker for the same position. What we need to embrace is more private sector investment as they are the support of tax revenue to pay for the gov't workers. What if 1 out of every 2 workers has a job in gov't/teacher/medical/etc. where their pay comes from the gov't - where would this lead to? Higher taxes? Print more $? Exodus of the private sector?

I remember a time as told by my elders in NZ that after the stock market crash in 85, the NZ gov't did a massive clean out and the whole country was able to manage with few cabinet ministers. How did they go from that to being overly top heavy?

I think a pay freeze on gov't workers on all levels is a pretty bold move and $60K/year pay is not exactly small pay for many parts of NZ. However if you want to adopt to Auckland lifestyle, then expect to be co-living with a partner or married so the mortgage can be paid.

I've queried in the past, who do we blame for out of control house prices and is it just purely bad gov't policy?

[jonu]

Immediately after freezing Public sector wages Cindy's lot trot out new rules for everyone else.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...mployment-laws

You couldn't make this stuff up! Have they no self awareness at all?

[Bjauck]

Immediately after freezing Public sector wages Cindy's lot trot out new rules for everyone else.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...mployment-laws

You couldn't make this stuff up! Have they no self awareness at all?

The pendulum of power is starting to swing again away from the owners of capital to workers? If nothing else, with the current tax policies, it may increase tax revenues as untaxed capital gains are replaced by taxed salaries and wages. Possibly also it may mean increased GST takings as the lower paid workers increase bargaining power to get more wage increases which will be used to buy goods and services.

[jonu]

The pendulum of power is starting to swing again away from the owners of capital to workers? If nothing else, with the current tax policies, it may increase tax revenues as untaxed capital gains are replaced by taxed salaries and wages. Possibly also it may mean increased GST takings as the lower paid workers increase bargaining power to get more wage increases which will be used to buy goods and services.

The pendulum swinging to workers as long as they don't work for Cindy's "be kind" government.

[SBQ]

The pendulum swinging to workers as long as they don't work for Cindy's "be kind" government.

Don't forget, this would apply to all levels - consider the profitability of your NZ share holdings if those companies are paying higher labour costs? This has been the issue over in America with Amazon. Pay the workers a little more than minimum wage while wiping out the small business mom & pop retailers.

Interesting times..

[FTG]

Sadly, if the law does proceed as currently proposed then it will be a clear step BACK towards the era of the 70's for NZ. A period of great acrimony and with the Unions often holding the country to ransom.

Let's call a spade a spade. The proposed FPA framework is compulsory unionism by stealth. But maybe it's not so stealth like though? It's pretty obvious actually....Labour looking after their mates (masters?) by screwing the scrum and giving them (the Unions) the power to have greater CONTROL over businesses and key decision making. All despite the unionised workforce in NZ being clearly in the minority.

Not only should NZers cherish & protect their freedom of association rights, but also their right to NOT be associated. Having a mechanism where only 10% of employees can pretty much force the other 90% to be dragged along and be associated is an assault on those and other basic freedoms.

As we know NZ is a country of SME's, the overwhelming majority of businesses in NZ have less than 19 employees. In effect this is like a business with 19 employees having just 2 people forcing the other 17 employees AND the business owners into a position that inevitably produces destructive outcomes for the Business AND the employees.
Another unintended consequence (or maybe it's not so unintended?) is that in any industry "negotiations", in reality the BIG boys will agree to set the parameters, and the smaller entrepreneurial folk, SME's etc will just have to tow the line and hang on for the ride.

Yes Bjauck, my opinion is that you are right on one thing. In the medium term the State will gain an enlarged tax-take. And yes, that includes GST, as prices will inflate further. As we also know, there is no free lunch and redistribution of wealth is not exempt to this principle, so the commercial & economic costs have to be recovered and paid for in some way.

The irony of all this, is eventually the typical employee actually ends up being WORSE off as inflation rises wider across & deeper in the economy, effectively diminishing the true power of those extra dollars and/or conditions they had force bargined for them. Oh that's right, I know, Robertson & his cronies would then put in place price freezes/caps...just like Muldoon huh!

[fungus pudding]

I dread the return of compulsory unionism such as we had in the 60s and 70s. Vicious unions holding the country to ransom with those unforgettable thugs, all with a common accent from a certain part of the planet. It was awful and NZ at the time was horrible. There are still some of those thugs hovering around the Labour party, longing to get back in their powerful positions of old. That is why I've never been able to trust the Labour party.

[Bjauck]

…

The irony of all this, is eventually the typical employee actually ends up being WORSE off as inflation rises wider across & deeper in the economy, effectively diminishing the true power of those extra dollars and/or conditions they had force bargined for them. Oh that's right, I know, Robertson & his cronies would then put in place price freezes/caps...just like Muldoon huh!

There has already been excessive inflation as a result of previous government policy settings - not of the CPI but of asset prices. Consequently many workers have been priced out of home ownership.

I am not sure why there is objection to compulsory unionism after there is already compulsory unionism for some occupations - those that call themselves “professions”. Indeed obligatory membership of a union may well lead to more moderate unions and more straightforward dealing for both employer and employee. in some occupations there may be a choice as to which union the employee could join.