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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers View Post
    Hey, they are not all ‘poor people’.
    The rents people are now being asked to pay are extraordinary.
    I wasnt being pejorative but quite frankly if you cant afford to put a roof over your head without govt assistance then in my opinion you are poor. Thats how the world rolls yeh? Coz only food comes at a higher priority according to that maslow hierarchy
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers View Post
    The property looting scheme runs on hundreds of millions of government subsidies yearly, interest rates so low that money is being given away virtually for free, a steady stream of immigrants pouring in....and you look around and see the comments on-line, and it’s all put down to “it’s a lack of supply!!”

    Totally disingenuous of the populace of this country; they know exactly the reasons why the property market is in the state it is in, but none of them want their interest rates to go up or their supply of cheap credit to be cut off. None of them want the river of government subsidies to cease. But why not be honest about it? Why be so lacking in integrity that you can’t admit that all the government and Reserve Bank are doing is pouring can after can of petrol on the conflagration with their ultra-loose monetary and fiscal policies?
    Why be so lacking in integrity??
    Because your job and your political party depend on it.
    Your retirement depends on it? Your comfortable way of life depends on it? As long as you have a house (or two) your kids should be OK as well so why change.

    It is easier to blame housing supply because then you can blame government regulations I suppose, rather than the independent reserve bank helping to keep financial markets stable with easy money and low interest rates and 50,000 immigrants each year (would they have any significant effect on the housing market it is only 1% of the population per annum?)

    Housing inflation running at 7% compounding per annum for the last 20 years, wages 3%. I guess the government answer is the accommodation supplement as some people can’t afford housing anymore.

    Monetary policy and targeted inflation are playing a part but no one in power wants to address this issue at least until something breaks.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    Why be so lacking in integrity??
    Because your job and your political party depend on it.
    Your retirement depends on it? Your comfortable way of life depends on it? As long as you have a house (or two) your kids should be OK as well so why change.

    It is easier to blame housing supply because then you can blame government regulations I suppose, rather than the independent reserve bank helping to keep financial markets stable with easy money and low interest rates and 50,000 immigrants each year (would they have any significant effect on the housing market it is only 1% of the population per annum?)

    Housing inflation running at 7% compounding per annum for the last 20 years, wages 3%. I guess the government answer is the accommodation supplement as some people can’t afford housing anymore.

    Monetary policy and targeted inflation are playing a part but no one in power wants to address this issue at least until something breaks.
    Ok, 50,000 immigrants per annum is no issue in your eyes....how many houses per annum should this country be building? Do we want all our prime horticultural land close to Auckland to be covered in housing? What is the endgame here? We now have more real estate agents in NZ than we do farmers.

    Soon as COVID hit there was some guy on the radio from some construction industry body carrying on about how it could be a calamity for the building industry and how every NZer - regardless of age, stage, or wealth - should be paid $50,000 by the government to ‘invest’ into property. This is the mentality. This was on the TV3 breakfast show as well.
    We have all our eggs in one basket.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by peat View Post
    I wasnt being pejorative but quite frankly if you cant afford to put a roof over your head without govt assistance then in my opinion you are poor. Thats how the world rolls yeh? Coz only food comes at a higher priority according to that maslow hierarchy
    But wages and salaries are not going up anywhere near the same rate as property prices and rents. So yeah, by your definition a lot more people are becoming ‘poor’ while others are becoming ‘rich’.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers View Post
    But wages and salaries are not going up anywhere near the same rate as property prices and rents. So yeah, by your definition a lot more people are becoming ‘poor’ while others are becoming ‘rich’.
    yes inequity is exacerbating. and your thread is very pertinent. I dont think many people realise how welfare is making making people poorer.
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers View Post
    Ok, 50,000 immigrants per annum is no issue in your eyes....how many houses per annum should this country be building? Do we want all our prime horticultural land close to Auckland to be covered in housing? What is the endgame here? We now have more real estate agents in NZ than we do farmers.

    Soon as COVID hit there was some guy on the radio from some construction industry body carrying on about how it could be a calamity for the building industry and how every NZer - regardless of age, stage, or wealth - should be paid $50,000 by the government to ‘invest’ into property. This is the mentality. This was on the TV3 breakfast show as well.
    We have all our eggs in one basket.
    Quite the opposite I am anti immigration, even if they are white and speak english they can stay in their own country imho. What is the end game? Currently constant seemingly pointless growth and a Ponzi monetary system that will collapse if debt does not keep expanding.

    What is the perfect number of people for a country our size? I would suggest something less than 5million.

    Why not invest in our young people instead of making it impossible for them to ever buy a house. Perhaps they might be more inclined to have families if it didn't require two incomes to pay the rent or the mortgage.

    Lots of talk on climate change but no suggestion that we work towards a financial system that doesn't require constant growth and consumption.
    Last edited by Aaron; 01-02-2021 at 11:15 AM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by peat View Post
    yes inequity is exacerbating. and your thread is very pertinent. I dont think many people realise how welfare is making making people poorer.
    The Welfare and Taxation policies are making some people poor.

    Do we have a greater proportion of people poor because the upper wealth deciles have seen their share of wealth increase? Government policies make the difference.

    How many more people in NZ would no longer be poor/ no longer requiring government accommodation assistance if the government reduced the reliance on GST and income taxes introduced stamp duties, a comprehensive CGT and introduced a threshold before income tax is levied - such as exists in other countries?

  8. #28
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    A lot of talk in this thread about 'people'. In fact that should be 'households', and specifically household income. A DINK household is a very different item to a household with one income and perhaps another adult and children. Household size is a choice, household income is a series of choices. Not always but often.

    And the number of first home buyers is increasing, more than 3000 new FHBs a month.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    The Welfare and Taxation policies are making some people poor.

    Do we have a greater proportion of people poor because the upper wealth deciles have seen their share of wealth increase? Government policies make the difference.

    How many more people in NZ would no longer be poor/ no longer requiring government accommodation assistance if the government reduced the reliance on GST and income taxes introduced stamp duties, a comprehensive CGT and introduced a threshold before income tax is levied - such as exists in other countries?
    Sounds like TOP policies. IMO they were well thought through as an integrated approach and valuable as a starting point for discussion. Never happened, partly because too complex for many voters, and also because cats. And the cats thing was a complete distraction but that's politics.

    The last big economy shakeup apart from the GFC was Roger Douglas, and while it was the best change at the time some still bring the changes up as completely terrible. TOP's best chance was to be a ginger group like ACT, but can't see that happening now. Pity, the country should consider good ideas wherever they come from.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemis View Post
    Sounds like TOP policies. IMO they were well thought through as an integrated approach and valuable as a starting point for discussion. Never happened, partly because too complex for many voters, and also because cats. And the cats thing was a complete distraction but that's politics.

    The last big economy shakeup apart from the GFC was Roger Douglas, and while it was the best change at the time some still bring the changes up as completely terrible. TOP's best chance was to be a ginger group like ACT, but can't see that happening now. Pity, the country should consider good ideas wherever they come from.
    Not quite.

    Aren't TOP policies based on a type of implied fair dividend rate income or minimum deemed income from productive assets, including the family home? It was electorally unpopular as it would tax previously untaxed investment returns.
    https://www.top.org.nz/tax_policy_launch_speech_notes
    Last edited by Bjauck; 01-02-2021 at 12:58 PM.

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