Chloe Swarbrick - I like her style

[nztx]

I think we can safely rule out a Land Tax, due complexities unique to NZ around Maori land (& what constitutes Maori land, how loosely would that be defined? )
In my view, exemptions would cause huge divisions even between MP's within the Greens & achieving workable legislation take years.

And we can rule out a Wealth Tax for the reasons I've given above.

which leaves the huddle of Green Hicks up the creek without a paddle on another desperate
attempt to retain relevance as they sit in danger of being washed out when the bathwater gets
emptied out of the larger bath alongside that they are frantically trying to hang on to

A quick glance around the shared leadership of the Greens should send message enough
to all on what little they have any capability of delivering of their fairy tale dreams

How much have this hopeless bunch of clowns cost everyone since they started their
sleepwalk & dreaming session ?

[nztx]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...come-guarantee

Greens promise tax cuts for salaries under $125,000, and $385 per week income guarantee


$125,000 pa would have to be subsistence existence now after all the COL, Interest, Rental
and other cost hike ups in just the last 2 years .. what planet are the Greens on ?

$385 pw .. just $385 pw guaranteed .. how much rent & cans of beans would that buy now ?

In words seen elsewhere .. PATHETIC .. a Pathetic Policy announcement from Greens
who once again demonstrate admirably well just much 'Lost in Space' they continue to remain


Most would have to be fairly green to swallow that pathetic load of worthless attention seeking tripe


Seeing a Blue Moon is ranked more likely and Less Rare than a Greeny's Promise ever eventuating

but there could be a Green Mooning away and out party coming in October

[SBQ]

I think we can safely rule out a Land Tax, due complexities unique to NZ around Maori land (& what constitutes Maori land, how loosely would that be defined? )
In my view, exemptions would cause huge divisions even between MP's within the Greens & achieving workable legislation take years.

And we can rule out a Wealth Tax for the reasons I've given above.

Indigenous land ownership 'unique to NZ'? I beg to differ. Australia doesn't seem to have a problem imposing land tax on their aboriginal lands nor the ability to have exemptions. BTW, like Canada, Australia also has a GST system that seems to make certain foods exempt from that tax. In fact, everywhere else around the world seems to have exemptions of some sort without ailment. Canada has successfully created an insurmountable level of taxation around owning real estate, yet the principal owner is exempt from the likes of; vacancy tax, non-resident 20% surcharge to buy the property tax, rates and insurance sur-charges, CGT. All these countries don't seem to have a problem with 'complexities', then why would NZ have any issues? You mean IRD's computer is not big enough and NZ doesn't have programmers? Poppycock in the same form as how we can't build decent energy efficient homes (on the recent NZBC regulations, thicker walls are not the solution for energy efficiency).

The only confusion I see is Green Party voters are clueless at moving a country forward. They believe a Robinhood style of wealth redistribution is going to improve the situation of the poor. This has never ever worked in other countries that spew socialism to the extreme. If the Green Party ever gets these kinds of policy through, it will solidify my family's future plan to move back to Canada as the NZ gov't will do nothing for those with mental or physical disabilities (having 2 children with ASD and ADHD). There's no worse way in punishing hard working families who have children with special needs just because they've worked hard to achieve a nest egg, to only be taxed without consideration of their family needs. I DO know in Canada, the gov't there recognises Autism as a disability and gives exemptions in all areas from taxation, to social services. For starters, a Disability Trust allows the individual to be not taxed at trust rates but at individual progressive tax rates. Their investments also can grow 100% tax free in a RDSP stock market portfolio. None of these programs exist in NZ because the gov't is happy pushing them on the WINZ benefit for eternity. Ok enough of my rant...

[Blue Skies]

Indigenous land ownership 'unique to NZ'? I beg to differ. Australia doesn't seem to have a problem imposing land tax on their aboriginal lands nor the ability to have exemptions. BTW, like Canada, Australia also has a GST system that seems to make certain foods exempt from that tax. In fact, everywhere else around the world seems to have exemptions of some sort without ailment. Canada has successfully created an insurmountable level of taxation around owning real estate, yet the principal owner is exempt from the likes of; vacancy tax, non-resident 20% surcharge to buy the property tax, rates and insurance sur-charges, CGT. All these countries don't seem to have a problem with 'complexities', then why would NZ have any issues? You mean IRD's computer is not big enough and NZ doesn't have programmers? Poppycock in the same form as how we can't build decent energy efficient homes (on the recent NZBC regulations, thicker walls are not the solution for energy efficiency).

The only confusion I see is Green Party voters are clueless at moving a country forward. They believe a Robinhood style of wealth redistribution is going to improve the situation of the poor. This has never ever worked in other countries that spew socialism to the extreme. If the Green Party ever gets these kinds of policy through, it will solidify my family's future plan to move back to Canada as the NZ gov't will do nothing for those with mental or physical disabilities (having 2 children with ASD and ADHD). There's no worse way in punishing hard working families who have children with special needs just because they've worked hard to achieve a nest egg, to only be taxed without consideration of their family needs. I DO know in Canada, the gov't there recognises Autism as a disability and gives exemptions in all areas from taxation, to social services. For starters, a Disability Trust allows the individual to be not taxed at trust rates but at individual progressive tax rates. Their investments also can grow 100% tax free in a RDSP stock market portfolio. None of these programs exist in NZ because the gov't is happy pushing them on the WINZ benefit for eternity. Ok enough of my rant...

Australia doesn't & never has had a Treaty with its indigenous peoples & although I understand Canada had the vaguely worded The Royal Proclamation of 1763 with its First Nation peoples & King George recognising their rights to the lands they occupied, there's no equivalence to NZ's founding document, Te Tiriti O Waitangi outlining the relationship between the Crown & Māori.


The way I see it, neither a Wealth Tax or Land Tax are workable here for reasons I've previously outlined.
How do you annually value an asset like a small business e.g. a plumbing or electrician or mechanics business, or a bedding retailer or a someones jewellery or art collection ? Often you've no idea what they're worth until they're sold.

[SBQ]

Australia doesn't & never has had a Treaty with its indigenous peoples & although I understand Canada had the vaguely worded The Royal Proclamation of 1763 with its First Nation peoples & King George recognising their rights to the lands they occupied, there's no equivalence to NZ's founding document, Te Tiriti O Waitangi outlining the relationship between the Crown & Māori.


The way I see it, neither a Wealth Tax or Land Tax are workable here for reasons I've previously outlined.
How do you annually value an asset like a small business e.g. a plumbing or electrician or mechanics business, or a bedding retailer or a someones jewellery or art collection ? Often you've no idea what they're worth until they're sold.

As I mentioned in my previous posts, a 'wealth' tax that has been proposed by the Green Party is difficult on the reasons you mentioned. It has never been effectively done anywhere else in the world. This is why I brought up the issue of 'land tax' which many countries around the world do and it really has nothing to do with reference to any land treaties with the indigenous people. If it did, then explain how can various municipals impose 'rates' or what we call abroad, "property taxes" ?

We have computers that already record the values of land titles throughout the country. Again, if you feel that the Maori have some special entitlement, then they can be exempted in a simple way as how they do in Canada. The chief and their band status card is sufficient proof to show the city council that they are exempted on such a tax on their properties they own. This is not something nouveau here. ALL land can be assessed a value.

[Blue Skies]

As I mentioned in my previous posts, a 'wealth' tax that has been proposed by the Green Party is difficult on the reasons you mentioned. It has never been effectively done anywhere else in the world. This is why I brought up the issue of 'land tax' which many countries around the world do and it really has nothing to do with reference to any land treaties with the indigenous people. If it did, then explain how can various municipals impose 'rates' or what we call abroad, "property taxes" ?

We have computers that already record the values of land titles throughout the country. Again, if you feel that the Maori have some special entitlement, then they can be exempted in a simple way as how they do in Canada. The chief and their band status card is sufficient proof to show the city council that they are exempted on such a tax on their properties they own. This is not something nouveau here. ALL land can be assessed a value.

Yes & you might right and perhaps a Land Tax is workable.

But there are 3 different types of Māori land, Maori Freehold land, Maori Customary Land and General Land owned by Maori, and all I can see is a quagmire trying to impose & enforce a land tax, & any sensible government thinking, lets not go there, there must be easier ways of rebalancing the tax system if we really wanted to. e.g., increasing the tax rate on trusts to match the highest tax rate, or adjusting GST or the top tax rate.

As Geof Nightingale from the govt's own tax working group says, there's no revenue crisis, so its hard to justify a wealth or land tax on anything other than fairness, which is a value judgement.

[jonu]

Yes & you might right and perhaps a Land Tax is workable.

But there are 3 different types of Māori land, Maori Freehold land, Maori Customary Land and General Land owned by Maori, and all I can see is a quagmire trying to impose & enforce a land tax, & any sensible government thinking, lets not go there, there must be easier ways of rebalancing the tax system if we really wanted to. e.g., increasing the tax rate on trusts to match the highest tax rate, or adjusting GST or the top tax rate.

As Geof Nightingale from the govt's own tax working group says, there's no revenue crisis, so its hard to justify a wealth or land tax on anything other than fairness, which is a value judgement.

Nightingale is right. There is no revenue crisis (yet). There is a spending crisis.

[SBQ]

Nightingale is right. There is no revenue crisis (yet). There is a spending crisis.

and as Milton Friedman (Nobel prize US economist RIP) said, the best thing to control gov'ts way of spending is by LOWERING taxes. When the tax revenue crisis hits, then it's too late as gov'ts would be striving to meet social demands and targets. In Friedman's view, lowering taxes would reduce the tax take and 'force' gov'ts to reconsider, and waste less.

[Blue Skies]

Another reason why a Land Tax can be economically damaging & create inefficiencies is around agricultural land, horticulture & farms, where bits of the farm might have to be sold off to pay for the annual tax.
So would agricultural land be excluded & how loosely would that be defined or how easily would loop holes be created?

[Bjauck]

Why does Chloe make it sound like people are criminals for holding their assets in a trust? What would be the case if the person held that much wealth directly in their name? We have a wealth tax by investing in overseas shares under FIF, now she wants another wealth tax on assets held in NZ. How much tax are those top wealthiest paying compared to if they held the assets in their name (where the tax is paid at a progressive tax/bracket base vs flat rate trust rate)?

The Greens are trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes. Trusts in NZ are not much different than trusts in other countries. They're flat rate and often pay more tax than if the person held them directly. If a tax should be imposed, I would say a land tax on more than 1 house ownership would be more effective and easy to monitor than to have accountants go through a declaration process.

In some countries settlor-interested trusts, where the settlor retains a benefit from the assets in a trust, have different tax rules from those trusts in which the settlor is not also a beneficiary.