sharetrader
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 39

Thread: Low yields.

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    NEW ZEALAND
    Posts
    458

    Default Low yields.

    Why are the Smartshares bond funds GBF and NZB paying such low dividend yields, about 1% and 1.6%? I would have thought their price should have gone down and yield up to approximate current rates.

  2. #2
    On the doghouse
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    , , New Zealand.
    Posts
    9,796

    Default Smartshares NZB New Zealand Bond Fund: 12m return 07-08-2023

    Quote Originally Posted by Nor View Post
    Why are the Smartshares bond funds GBF and NZB paying such low dividend yields, about 1% and 1.6%? I would have thought their price should have gone down and yield up to approximate current rates.
    Excellent question Nor. Here is the link to the information page on the NZ Bond trust

    https://smartshares.co.nz/types-of-f...sh/nzbondtrust

    (Edit 15/08/2023): The above web-page reference is dynamic and appears to be updated daily. This means that some of the numbers referenced in this post will no longer correspond to the numbers on that page).

    If you go down to the 'portfolio characteristics' section, that shows a Bond Yield of 5.66%, for an average yield duration of 3.44 years. Fund charges at the top of the page indicate the 'annual fee' is 0.54%. So I would expect the gross return to unit holders to be something like:

    5.66% - 0.54%= 5.12%

    Yet historical gross dividend yield is a pitiful 1.66% ('Fund Details' top of page). Something is not adding up here! (Edit: see post 5 for the answer to this)

    Returns for the year, after fees but before tax, were 1.78% over the last twelve months (as listed under NTA unit performance graph). According to the one year interactive chart, the unit price on 8th August 2022 (Actually the price for the trading day before the weekend which was 5th August 2022) was $2.99272. That means the value to unit holders one year later including distributions as at 8th August 2023 must be:

    $2.99272 x 1.0178= $3.05055

    The unit price on the interactive chart dated 8th August 2023 (actually the figure for the NTA on 7th August 2023) was $2.86737. The difference, which must be the distributions over the last 12 months, must therefore have been:

    $3.05055-$2.86737=$0.183180, or 18.3c.

    18.3c gives an historical gross yield based on the 7th August 2023 unit price of: 18.3c/$2.86737= 6.38%

    That is very different to the 1.78% gross return declared. Would appreciate if you could double check my maths Nor. But I agree with your sentiment and expectations which do not appear to have been met.

    SNOOPY
    Last edited by Snoopy; 16-08-2023 at 08:11 AM. Reason: 8.08%->6.38%, plus date corrections
    Watch out for the most persistent and dangerous version of Covid-19: B.S.24/7

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    NEW ZEALAND
    Posts
    458

    Default

    Will do when I'm sure I have my head around it.
    Possibly there is some expectation that some of their bonds will mature and pay back at par, ie more than current worth? er just thinking.

  4. #4
    Ignorant. Just ignorant.
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Wrong Side of the Tracks
    Posts
    1,650

    Default

    I'm picking that there is some buying and selling to cover new money in and withdrawals, which will affect the NAV and thus unit price and thus yield. There are still a whole bunch of bonds out there with low coupon rates (ie LGF120 1.50%) trading at good discounts to issue price, which will muddy the waters.

    I think the worst investment you could make would be a bond fund held inside a custody platform.

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Whanganui
    Posts
    80

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy View Post
    Excellent question Nor. Here is the link to the information page on the NZ Bond trust

    https://smartshares.co.nz/types-of-f...sh/nzbondtrust

    If you go down to the 'portfolio characteristics' section, that shows a Bond Yield of 5.66%, for an average yield duration of 3.44 years. Fund charges at the top of the page indicate the 'annual fee' is 0.54%. So I would expect the gross return to unit holders to be something like:

    5.66% - 0.54%= 5.12%

    Yet historical gross dividend yield is a pitiful 1.66% ('Fund Details' top of page). Something is not adding up here!

    Returns for the year , after fees but before tax were 1.78% over the last twelve months (as listed under NTA unit performance graph). According to the one year chart, the unit price on 8th August 2022 was $2.99272. That means the value to unit holders one year later including distributions as at 8th August 2023 must be:

    $2.99272 x 1.0178= $3.05055

    The unit price on 8th August 2023 was $2.86737. The difference, which must be the distributions over the last 12 months, must therefore have been:

    $3.05055-$2.86737=$0.183180, or 18.3c.

    18.3c gives an historical gross yield based on the 8th August 2023 unit price of: 18.3c/$2.26737= 8.08%

    That is very different to the 1.78% gross return declared. Would appreciate if you could double check my maths Nor. But I agree with your sentiment and expectations which do not appear to have been met.

    SNOOPY
    The calculation is much easier than that - it's just the dividends paid in the last 12 months - from NZX (1.202+1.218+1.09+1.239) = $.0475 / $2.869 share price to give 1.658% yield with is the same as on the NZX site. It is of course a 12-month historic yield, not a forward looking yield.
    Last edited by JeffW; 10-08-2023 at 01:15 PM.

  6. #6
    On the doghouse
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    , , New Zealand.
    Posts
    9,796

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffW View Post
    The calculation is much easier than that - it's just the dividends paid in the last 12 months - from NZX (1.202+1.218+1.09+1.239) = $.0475 / $2.869 share price to give 1.658% yield with is the same as on the NZX site. It is of course a 12-month historic yield, not a forward looking yield.
    O I C. NZB historical dividends are here.
    https://www.nzx.com/instruments/NZB/dividends

    There is something very strange with that dividend record though. Why have the imputation credits of those last four dividends, -and only those last four-, shrunk to zero?

    SNOOPY
    Last edited by Snoopy; 10-08-2023 at 03:12 PM.
    Watch out for the most persistent and dangerous version of Covid-19: B.S.24/7

  7. #7
    On the doghouse
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    , , New Zealand.
    Posts
    9,796

    Default Smartshares NZB New Zealand Bond Fund: Buying/Selling effect on unit price

    Quote Originally Posted by GTM 3442 View Post
    I'm picking that there is some buying and selling to cover new money in and withdrawals, which will affect the NAV and thus unit price and thus yield.
    You might be on to something there GTM. For a start, there is definitely a DRP operating as evidenced by the following NZX news releases:

    14/06/2023: "NZ Bond ETF advises that the strike price for units, issued in lieu of dividend in respect of the distribution to be paid on 20th June 2023, is $2.866 per unit."

    The number of units on the books on 20th June 2023 was 144,167,077
    But the next entry where the number of units on issue changes is on 3rd July 2023, where the number of shares on issue drops by 50,000 to 144,117,077.

    Since there was no increase prior to this and the 14th June announcement, I guess we can conclude that there were no new units issued as a result of the DRP?

    It would seem the fund is open ended and the number of units change as people get in and out of the fund.

    On my first live trading reference date of Monday 8th August 2022, after the reference date of Sunday 7th August 2022, the number of units on issue reduced from 103,151,618 to 103,111,618 - a drop of 140,000.
    Compare this to my second reference date of 7th August 2023 with 145,717,077 units on issue

    That means over my reference year: 145,717,077-103,151,618= 42,565,459 new fund units were created.

    In terms of number of units, the fund has increased in size by 42,565,459/103,151,618 = 41.3% (!) This also means that all of those additional units were purchased in the 07/08/2022 to 07/08/2023 calendar year. Given the number of units on issue at the date 08-02-2023 (the half year points) was a mere 116,977,077 (which means an increment of 116,977,077-103,151,618= 13,825,459 in the first six months of my reference year), this indicates nearly 3/4 of those incremental purchases were made in the second six month period of my reference year.

    SNOOPY
    Last edited by Snoopy; 15-08-2023 at 04:43 PM.
    Watch out for the most persistent and dangerous version of Covid-19: B.S.24/7

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Whanganui
    Posts
    80

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy View Post
    O I C. NZB historical dividends are here.
    https://www.nzx.com/instruments/NZB/dividends

    There is something very strange with that dividend record though. Why have the imputation credits of those last four dividends, -and only those last four-, shrunk to zero?

    SNOOPY
    Potentially there is zero taxable income, if there's been the sale of bonds at a loss, so no tax payable, but they're still distributed the cash interest received. Not sure, but a possibility
    Last edited by JeffW; 10-08-2023 at 05:39 PM.

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    NEW ZEALAND
    Posts
    458

    Default

    Seems very dodgy to me. What applies to a single bond of yields up price down and vv must also apply to a collection of bonds eg a fund. How can people really be investing in these funds for 1% when they could get several times more at call in the bank?

  10. #10
    On the doghouse
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    , , New Zealand.
    Posts
    9,796

    Default Smartshares NZB New Zealand Bond Fund: Unit sale transactions

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffW View Post
    Potentially there is zero taxable income, if there's been the sale of bonds at a loss, so no tax payable, but they're still distributed the cash interest received. Not sure, but a possibility
    The managers of NZB cannot control when individual members want to sell out of this fund. That means as a 'default assumption', all bonds purchased must be assumed to be held to maturity (thinking about this, individuals purchasing the bonds have the same assumptions applied to them). But if a unit holder 'wants out', that means that a daily sale price that very likely does not match the maturity price is crystallized. And in a climate of rapidly climbing interest rates, such as we have had, that can mean a loss is crystallized. So what money was pulled out of NZB during the year in question (07-08-2022 to 07-08-2023)?

    Withdrawal date Unit Price Withdrawal amount
    08-08-2022 2.92000 (140,000)
    09-08-2022 2.92559 (60,000)
    ----------------------- ------------------------ ------------------------
    18-08-2022 2.90950 (800,000)
    02-09-2022 2.87028 (50,000)
    15-09-2022 2.87317 (700,000)
    20-09-2022 2.87227 (100,000)
    03-10-2022 2.84814 (700,000)
    07-10-2022 2.85347 (250,000)
    12-10-2022 2.84121 (50,000)
    14-10-2022 2.83791 (30,000)
    12-10-2022 2.84121 (50,000)
    18-10-2022 2.82811 (30,000)
    19-10-2022 2.81931 (50,000)
    01-11-2022 2.83887 (580,000)
    09-11-2022 2.82308 (100,000)
    21-11-2022 2.86125 (100,000)
    24-11-2022 2.85705 (100,000)
    30-11-2022 2.85239 (50,000)
    07-12-2022 2.86209 (50,000)
    16-12-2022 2.84635 (350,000)
    19-12-2022 2.84862 (150,000)
    23-12-2022 2.84395 (50,000)
    28-12-2022 2.83352 (50,000)
    29-12-2022 2.83391 (50,000)
    04-01-2023 2.84582 (50,000)
    06-01-2023 2.85102 (90,000)
    09-01-2023 2.85597 (150,000)
    24-01-2023 2.87520 (50,000)
    23-02-2023 2.85254 (500,000)
    15-03-2023 2.85707 (150,000)
    20-03-2023 2.87276 (200,000)
    22-03-2023 2.86806 (50,000)
    31-03-2023 2.87115 (300,000)
    03-04-2023 2.87603 (160,000)
    04-04-2023 2.87712 (90,000)
    06-04-2023 2.88227 (150,000)
    13-04-2023 2.88218 (100,000)
    26-04-2023 2.88285 (170,000)
    01-05-2023 2.88764 (240,000)
    10-05-2023 2.88715 (50,000)
    16-05-2023 2.88898 (100,000)
    29-05-2023 2.87757 (50,000)
    30-06-2023 2.86463 (50,000)
    04-07-2023 2.86428 (60,000)
    13-07-2023 2.86642 (50,000)
    20-07-2023 2.86878 (50,000)
    25-07-2023 2.88285 (170,000)
    26-07-2023 2.86890 (300,000)
    27-07-2023 2.87185 (50,000)
    02-08-2023 2.86651 (100,000)
    03-08-2023 2.86580 (100,000)
    07-08-2023 2.86737 (50,000)
    Yearly Total to 10-08-2023 (8,020,000)

    SNOOPY
    Last edited by Snoopy; 23-08-2023 at 03:23 PM.
    Watch out for the most persistent and dangerous version of Covid-19: B.S.24/7

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •