Nat/act/nzf 2023

[Logen Ninefingers]

Do the opposite of what the NZ property industry wants.

If they want tax cuts, give em tax hikes. If they want high net migration then tighten the screws there.

‘Tighten the screws’ on immigration. 😂 Dear me, in the last year of the previous government they virtually had an ‘open borders’ approach; every man and his dog came in. Pure, and deeply cynical, desperation to keep the economy afloat.
But in general, the Left favours high immigration at all times. 1/ Cos ‘diversity’. 2/ Because tighter immigration setting are (apparently) ‘racist’. Racist being the Lefts buzzword de jour.

[iceman]

Instead of some bland meaningless criticism, be specific. Exactly what are all these mistruths & nonsense?

Are you denying hundreds of dead snapper (some full size) have washed up on beaches in the Hauraki Gulf ?
or denying some Commercial Fishing Industry bosses were among the biggest donors to new Fisheries Minister Shane Jones election campaign ?
Are you denying Commercial Fishing bosses have been pushing to get rid of cameras on commercial fishing boats?
Or that Shane Jones has asked officials to review them & said he was unsure of their future ?
or that the Kermadec Islands is on a migration path for many marine species as well as home to huge stocks of marine life ?
or that Shane Jones recently said he'd make sure the planned Marine Sanctuary which would prevent Commercial Fishing there, doesn't go ahead ?
are you denying the Labour Govt proposed banning Commercial Fishing boats Bottom Trawling which the devastates marine environment, in just about all of the Hauraki Gulf ?

I think you're connected with Commercial Fishing Industry ? If so best to declare it.

In your earlier post you said the current Government is going to “resume"Bottom Trawling" (banned by Labour)”

In this post you say the Labour Party “proposed to ban bottom trawling”, something I question as well.

Which one is it ? Anyone suggesting all bottom trawling should be banned has no concept of the fishing industry. We simply wouldn’t have a fishing industry and much of the exports that come from it, without bottom trawling.
Or are you saying this is the next industry Labour wants to destroy, after oil & gas, mining, foreign student education etc etc ?

Bearing in mind that Ngai Tahu lead organisations (and some other iwi) are the biggest users of bottom trawls, I can not see Labour blanket banning it.

Are you also saying that no MP should be a Minister in an area where he/she have industry support ? As an example Labour receives money from my wife’s Union (teacher) which by the way never asks its members if they agree. Does that mean Labour should never control the Education Ministry ?
Where do you draw the line ?

Like the agriculture industry, the seafood industry is very pleased to finally have a Minister that knows a little bit about the industry & what is important for them. That is a refreshing change from the last few years for many industries

More than happy to declare, at your demand, that I derive my livelihood from the commercial fishing industry and have done so all my life

[davflaws]

What is glaringly obvious on these threads is the left is prepared to offer up any lie and misrepresentation to avoid reality and accountability.

Now they have been booted out of Government, they expect the new coalition to fix all the mismanagement and problems Labour Greens created or failed to address in a very short time.

Two faced double standards!

Yeah yeah yeah - but what specific misrepresentations were in BS' post?

[Getty]

No No No, my comment wasn't limited to any one post.

[Blue Skies]

In your earlier post you said the current Government is going to “resume"Bottom Trawling" (banned by Labour)”

In this post you say the Labour Party “proposed to ban bottom trawling”, something I question as well.

Which one is it ? Anyone suggesting all bottom trawling should be banned has no concept of the fishing industry. We simply wouldn’t have a fishing industry and much of the exports that come from it, without bottom trawling.
Or are you saying this is the next industry Labour wants to destroy, after oil & gas, mining, foreign student education etc etc ?

Bearing in mind that Ngai Tahu lead organisations (and some other iwi) are the biggest users of bottom trawls, I can not see Labour blanket banning it.

Are you also saying that no MP should be a Minister in an area where he/she have industry support ? As an example Labour receives money from my wife’s Union (teacher) which by the way never asks its members if they agree. Does that mean Labour should never control the Education Ministry ?
Where do you draw the line ?

Like the agriculture industry, the seafood industry is very pleased to finally have a Minister that knows a little bit about the industry & what is important for them. That is a refreshing change from the last few years for many industries

More than happy to declare, at your demand, that I derive my livelihood from the commercial fishing industry and have done so all my life

Here read this,



https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/...t-hauraki-gulf

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political...of-marine-park


And this - the results of Horizon Poll last week with 73% of adults wanting Bottom Trawling Banned in Sth Pacific International waters WHILE our new coalition govt has withdrawn support for a ban and LOBBIED for Bottom Trawling to be allowed to continue.
AND 80% of adults want cameras on commercial fishing boats.


https://www.horizonpoll.co.nz/page/692/kiwis-ban-h

Bottom Trawling destroys in seconds marine ecosystems which have taken thousands of years to build up.




And BTW, a Union or organisation which represents thousands of members donating to a Political Party (either National or Labour or ACT, Greens etc ) is not the same as Industry bosses/owners making significant donations to an individual who they are hoping to become their Minister. We saw it also with the Horse Racing Industry & Winston Peters.
Can you see the difference ?

[nztx]

Here read this,



https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/...t-hauraki-gulf

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political...of-marine-park


And this - the results of Horizon Poll last week with 73% of adults wanting Bottom Trawling Banned in Sth Pacific International waters WHILE our new coalition govt has withdrawn support for a ban and LOBBIED for Bottom Trawling to be allowed to continue.
AND 80% of adults want cameras on commercial fishing boats.


https://www.horizonpoll.co.nz/page/692/kiwis-ban-h

Bottom Trawling destroys in seconds marine ecosystems which have taken thousands of years to build up.




And BTW, a Union or organisation which represents thousands of members donating to a Political Party (either National or Labour or ACT, Greens etc ) is not the same as Industry bosses/owners making significant donations to an individual who they are hoping to become their Minister. We saw it also with the Horse Racing Industry & Winston Peters.
Can you see the difference ?

And how much did Labour while in Government donate to the Media for a large dallop of feel good and spin the BullSh!t ?

[iceman]

Here read this,



https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/...t-hauraki-gulf

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political...of-marine-park


And this - the results of Horizon Poll last week with 73% of adults wanting Bottom Trawling Banned in Sth Pacific International waters WHILE our new coalition govt has withdrawn support for a ban and LOBBIED for Bottom Trawling to be allowed to continue.
AND 80% of adults want cameras on commercial fishing boats.


https://www.horizonpoll.co.nz/page/692/kiwis-ban-h

Bottom Trawling destroys in seconds marine ecosystems which have taken thousands of years to build up.




And BTW, a Union or organisation which represents thousands of members donating to a Political Party (either National or Labour or ACT, Greens etc ) is not the same as Industry bosses/owners making significant donations to an individual who they are hoping to become their Minister. We saw it also with the Horse Racing Industry & Winston Peters.
Can you see the difference ?

I don't need to read this. I follow it closely and don't need to re-read many months old articles. Your original post on this issue said the Coalition Government is going to "resume bottom trawling (banned by Labour)".
That is not a truthful statement. Neither had Labour "banned bottom trawling" nor has the Coalition made any announcements to "resume" it. There are numerous MPAs (Marine protected areas) in NZ waters where various levels of restrictions apply, including some where bottom trawling is banned. We've had them for decades. There is nothing new in any of this.
Most fish caught by bottom trawls comes from areas where bottom trawls have been used for decades and they still produce well. That's how destructive the method is, or not.

No I don't see any difference whether money comes from a Union with thousands of members that have no say in it, or a commercial organisation in any industry, which often employs hundreds or thousands of people and are often major benefactors to their communities, like I know some of the financial contributors to NZ First are. You should also be aware that some of the ones you refer to in the fishing industry, have a history of making donations to other political parties as well, including Labour.

[davflaws]

No I don't see any difference whether money comes from a Union with thousands of members that have no say in it, or a commercial organisation in any industry, which often employs hundreds or thousands of people

And can you tell us why the industry doesn't want cameras on its boats?

[iceman]

And can you tell us why the industry doesn't want cameras on its boats?

No I can’t because Im not fully informed about this. But I assume neither are you.

This is a very complicated issue. Apart from the question of what it is supposed to achieve and whether it achieves it. There are some serious privacy issues with placing 24/7 cameras in anyones workplace. I invite all of you to think about it and whether you would accept it in your workplace.

This was an ill thought out idea which cost millions of dollars to the Government, but came out of the so called COVID-19 fund, which was in fact a mortgage.
What is it meant to achieve and does it do it ?

[davflaws]

No I can’t because Im not fully informed about this. But I assume neither are you.

If I knew, I wouldn't be asking, but since you have been involved with the industry most of your life I thought you might know.

I can guess of course, and the obvious reason to object to recorded surveillance is to conceal intentional or inadvertent breach of regulations.

This is a very complicated issue. Apart from the question of what it is supposed to achieve and whether it achieves it. There are some serious privacy issues with placing 24/7 cameras in anyones workplace. I invite all of you to think about it and whether you would accept it in your workplace.

So please tell us about the complications. I don't see how privacy is a serious issue. There is recorded surveillance in hundreds of thousands of workplaces, and well developed protocols for it's use, along with penalties for misuse under the Privacy Act. AFAIK, there have never been cameras (or proposals to put them) anywhere except working areas.