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  1. #71
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    And Oct 6th?
    And Oct 5th?
    ....

  2. #72
    Legend Balance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dln View Post
    And Oct 6th?
    And Oct 5th?
    ....
    Hamas was preparing to carry out the massacre then.

  3. #73
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    Dutch court orders halt to export of F-35 jet parts to Israel

    "It is undeniable that there is a clear risk the exported F-35 parts are used in serious violations of international humanitarian law," the court said.

    https://www.reuters.com/business/aer...el-2024-02-12/

  4. #74
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    The United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) has been tracking deaths in the conflict since 2008 and its data shows that 5,600 Palestinians died up to 2020 while 115,000 were injured. 250 Israelis died during the same period while 5,600 were injured.
    That's before the latest stats which added show how one sided and brutal Israel has been long-term.Even it up and maybe there is an argument to be had.I curse my Jewish genes and to me they have been cauterised from my mind and soul .

  5. #75
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    The Israelis are certainly teaching the Palestinians not to muck around with them.

    Just as the Arab countries learnt from the several wars they fought with Israel over the past decades.

    War is hell and Hamas opened up the gates of hell for the Palestinian people.
    Last edited by Balance; 13-02-2024 at 10:49 AM.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    The Israelis are certainly teaching the Palestinians not to muck around with them.

    Just as the Arab countries learnt from the several wars they fought with Israel over the past decades.

    War is hell and Hamas opened up the gates of hell for the Palestinian people.






    Harvard Political Scientist Stephen Walt says Biden & others like yourself have a view of Israel stuck in the 70's (though Biden is changing) where Israel was seen as this plucky underdog nation, surrounded by hostile Arab States, somewhat of a strategic partner to the West, a very positive image.

    But people today, esp those under 40, & even some Jewish Human Rights groups, see Israel now as a pariah state, which is never going to give up the territories it took in the 6 Day War but aggressively colonises them with settlers forcefully expelling Palestinians from their homes & off their land, whose treatment of Palestinians is increasingly brutal & harsh, imposing an apartheid system on them, denying them basic human rights, treating the Palestinian population in horrific ways, arresting & detaining without access to any form of justice anyone it wants, beatings, rape, shooting journalists, - a powerful wealthy nuclear armed Israel, led by a corrupt extreme Right Wing coalition.

    They see an Israel which can no longer win the argument on facts and morality, so is using raw political power trying to control the discourse, using intimidation & deflection.
    Any criticism of Israel used to be silenced with accusations of anti-semitism.
    Demands for a ceasefire are met with rejection.

    It suited both Israel & the US to keep the Palestinian issue off the global agenda, some Arab countries were even moving closer to normalising relations with Israel.

    But since Oct 7th with over 100,000 killed, injured & wounded or missing Palestinians, 70% women & children, the most brutal conflict on a civilian population in modern history & the conflict expanding into Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Iraq, the Red Sea, potentially Suez, the plight of the Palestinians can no longer be ignored.



    We're seeing change within Media giants like CNN & The New York Times & others, splits forming & strong push back from some employees, journalists, saying in the past they have been far too biased towards Israel in their reporting. And world leaders becoming increasingly frustrated with Israel.

    It's increasingly clear Israel won't be able to eliminate HAMAS & a 2 State Solution seem further away than ever.

    There needs to be an immediate ceasefire, a return of the hostages & resumption of aid.

    None of the above is intended in any way to excuse the atrocities committed by HAMAS, last October killing 1,139 & taking 240 hostages.
    Most people are capable of condemning the actions of both HAMAS & Israel.

  7. #77
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    What Blue Skies just posted is straight out of the playbook and propaganda machinery of Hamas.

    Did you get it directly from Hamas or via the Greens?

    Last edited by Balance; 13-02-2024 at 05:49 PM.

  8. #78
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    Finally seeing Luxon joining other world leaders & the UN demanding an immediate ceasefire. Frances President Macron one of Israel's staunchest supporters early in the conflict now saying the continuing slaughter is intolerable.

    Netanyahu is out of control, ignoring calls from everywhere. President Biden referring to Netanyahu privately now as "that ass*ole" and "that f***ing bad guy".

    In 4 months the IDF has only managed to free 3 hostages, while obliterating most of Gaza & slaughtering over 28,000 Palestinians, mostly women & children. (the other hostages which were freed were by negotiation swap).
    Yet Netanyahu says they will not stop until victory is complete. What does that even mean?
    Israel has dropped over 65,000 tonnes of bombs on Gaza, destroyed 70% of it's homes.
    It's obvious now they can't eliminate HAMAS, after 4 months they may have killed 8,000 of estimated 35,000, & some HAMAS leaders aren't in Gaza.


    And now ordering people to leave Rafah before they attack it. Where are the 1.5 million terrified Palestinians crammed into a tiny Rafar supposed to go. There's no where left.
    They fled there because they were told it was a Safe Zone by the Israeli army.
    Rafah is an area roughly the size of Central Wellington.

    Recent polls show around half of Americans think Israel has gone too far, and for young people its much more stark, polling suggests more now prefer HAMAS over Israel.
    Probably worse in Europe.
    That's very worrying for the future of Israel. Those young people will become the 'Establishment' one day.

    History will not look kindly on the savagery of Israel's response or those who supported it

  9. #79
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    Hamas opened the gates of hell for the Palestinian people :




  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Skies View Post
    Finally seeing Luxon joining other world leaders & the UN demanding an immediate ceasefire. Frances President Macron one of Israel's staunchest supporters early in the conflict now saying the continuing slaughter is intolerable.

    Netanyahu is out of control, ignoring calls from everywhere. President Biden referring to Netanyahu privately now as "that ass*ole" and "that f***ing bad guy".

    In 4 months the IDF has only managed to free 3 hostages, while obliterating most of Gaza & slaughtering over 28,000 Palestinians, mostly women & children. (the other hostages which were freed were by negotiation swap).
    Yet Netanyahu says they will not stop until victory is complete. What does that even mean?
    Israel has dropped over 65,000 tonnes of bombs on Gaza, destroyed 70% of it's homes.
    It's obvious now they can't eliminate HAMAS, after 4 months they may have killed 8,000 of estimated 35,000, & some HAMAS leaders aren't in Gaza.


    And now ordering people to leave Rafah before they attack it. Where are the 1.5 million terrified Palestinians crammed into a tiny Rafar supposed to go. There's no where left.
    They fled there because they were told it was a Safe Zone by the Israeli army.
    Rafah is an area roughly the size of Central Wellington.

    Recent polls show around half of Americans think Israel has gone too far, and for young people its much more stark, polling suggests more now prefer HAMAS over Israel.
    Probably worse in Europe.
    That's very worrying for the future of Israel. Those young people will become the 'Establishment' one day.

    History will not look kindly on the savagery of Israel's response or those who supported it
    That's right.
    When the current young generation become the leaders they will demand that Israel become isolated unless it agrees to the end of apartheid.

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