sharetrader
Page 1 of 15 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 149
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    , Auckland , New Zealand.
    Posts
    337

    Default Some questions for traders

    I don't mean to pry. You can ignore this if you wish or tell me to MMOB. But I'm curious about how you guys operate and how well it works out for you.

    To begin with, I notice you never mention the dread T word - TAX. You are obviously trading to make money and incurring tax liability. Does this mean you have to report all trades to the IRD to back up your tax return? Do you ever deliberately sell at a loss to reduce tax liability? With online trading I guess brokerage is not a significant factor - right? What's an average frequency of trades - one a day, one a week, or what? Are you paying 39% i t and are you factoring this into the results of your year's trading? Do you ever compare that outcome with that of an investor who might make, say, 6 to 10 sales a year, enjoying a tax-free capital gain, while also getting income from dividends, often fully imputed.

    What deductions can the average trader claim - for computer equipment, use of home/office premises, magazine & newspaper subscriptions etc? Are you registered for GST and able to claim back a percentage of phone/car etc expenses?

    I enjoy reading many of your posts on ST but I guess there are other non-traders, as well as me, who would like to know a bit more about how you operate.

  2. #2
    Guru
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Wellington, New Zealand
    Posts
    4,891

    Default

    quote:Originally posted by Lawso

    Do you ever deliberately sell at a loss to reduce tax liability?
    There is nothing wrong with this and happens all the time. Just means that you will retain "winners" in your portfolio and just defers the tax liability to later years.

    I trade and yes, do declare tax on trading.

  3. #3
    Reincarnated Panthera Snow Leopard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Private Universe
    Posts
    5,862

    Default

    Q. Does this mean you have to report all trades to the IRD to back up your tax return?
    A. No. You just report your profit/loss on your and fill in your ?IR10? You also keep records of trades, bank accounts, receipts for expenses in case the IRD ever decide to check up.

    Q. Do you ever deliberately sell at a loss to reduce tax liability?
    A. NO - I would rather earn more and pay more tax.

    Q. With online trading I guess brokerage is not a significant factor - right?
    A. Brokerage fees are a business expense and thus claimed in full. Brokerage can be a significant expense on a trade. e.g. I bought and sold NPX yesterday the brokerage fees swallowed more than half the capital gain on the actual shares.

    Q. What's an average frequency of trades - one a day, one a week, or what?
    A. For me it purely depends a) perceived opportunity to make money on a situation b) having the cash sitting in the account c) having the time to monitor the price i.e. not doing my other job. In the last 12 months I have bought/sold about 40 times.

    Q. Are you paying 39% it and are you factoring this into the results of your year's trading?
    A. You pay tax at the appropiate rate and yes

    Q. Do you ever compare that outcome with that of an investor who might make, say, 6 to 10 sales a year, enjoying a tax-free capital gain, while also getting income from dividends, often fully imputed.
    A. Someone doing 6 buy/sells a year may well be a trader in the eyes of the IRD. The definition is all about INTENT.
    I trade as much for the fun/excitment as anything to be honest and have a company for said purposes. As a seperate taxable entity I also invest which so far as been a buy and hold operation and in absolute terms I have acheived greater gains from that.

    Q. What deductions can the average trader claim - for computer equipment, use of home/office premises, magazine & newspaper subscriptions etc?
    A. yes to all

    Q. Are you registered for GST and able to claim back a percentage of phone/car etc expenses?
    A. GST registered and I do not claim car expenses for internet trading.

    Does that answer you sufficiently?



    om mani peme hum

  4. #4
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    , , .
    Posts
    17

    Default

    nice answer by Paper Tiger.
    I have added the few bits in blue.

    quote:Originally posted by Paper Tiger

    Q. Does this mean you have to report all trades to the IRD to back up your tax return?
    A. No. You just report your profit/loss on your and fill in your ?IR10? You also keep records of trades, bank accounts, receipts for expenses in case the IRD ever decide to check up.
    you attach a summary of profit/loss for all COMPLETED trades. Trades still in progress are not included (optional?)

    Q. Do you ever deliberately sell at a loss to reduce tax liability?
    A. NO - I would rather earn more and pay more tax.
    you can sell any losers just before 31st march, to offset any profits during the year...thats why there is often a sell off the last week in march

    Q. With online trading I guess brokerage is not a significant factor - right?
    A. Brokerage fees are a business expense and thus claimed in full. Brokerage can be a significant expense on a trade. e.g. I bought and sold NPX yesterday the brokerage fees swallowed more than half the capital gain on the actual shares.

    Q. What's an average frequency of trades - one a day, one a week, or what?
    A. For me it purely depends a) perceived opportunity to make money on a situation b) having the cash sitting in the account c) having the time to monitor the price i.e. not doing my other job. In the last 12 months I have bought/sold about 40 times.

    Q. Are you paying 39% it and are you factoring this into the results of your year's trading?
    A. You pay tax at the appropiate rate and yes

    Q. Do you ever compare that outcome with that of an investor who might make, say, 6 to 10 sales a year, enjoying a tax-free capital gain, while also getting income from dividends, often fully imputed.
    A. Someone doing 6 buy/sells a year may well be a trader in the eyes of the IRD. The definition is all about INTENT.
    I trade as much for the fun/excitment as anything to be honest and have a company for said purposes. As a seperate taxable entity I also invest which so far as been a buy and hold operation and in absolute terms I have acheived greater gains from that.
    as a trader, you also get the dividends and imp credits if you are holding the share at the time. you dont pay extra tax on these, since tax has already been paid by the company.

    Q. What deductions can the average trader claim - for computer equipment, use of home/office premises, magazine & newspaper subscriptions etc?
    A. yes to all. you can claim all expenses you are entitled to for any home based business.

    Q. Are you registered for GST and able to claim back a percentage of phone/car etc expenses?
    A. GST registered and I do not claim car expenses for internet trading. you CAN claim if you use your phone and car for share trading, eg phoning brokers, travel to shareholder meetings, postage etc

    Does that answer you sufficiently?



    <center></center>

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    New Zealand.
    Posts
    1,221

    Default

    quote:Originally posted by Paper Tiger

    Q. Are you paying 39% it and are you factoring this into the results of your year's trading?
    A. You pay tax at the appropiate rate and yes

    Q. Are you registered for GST and able to claim back a percentage of phone/car etc expenses?
    A. GST registered and I do not claim car expenses for internet trading.
    My thoughts of interest:

    1) It makes little financial sense to be paying 39% on trading profits. If you have a high-paying day job, or are making significant sums trading, then it would be appropriate to have a seperate structure and pay tax at 33%.

    2) Share trading is classified as an exempt financial activity by the IRD, so I am unsure why you would be GST registered solely for share trading as you are unable to claim the GST input credits where you solely have exempt supplies.

    PT, your reasoning on point 2, given that you are GST registered?



    Death will be reality, Life is just an illusion.

  6. #6
    Advanced Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Auckland, , New Zealand.
    Posts
    2,314

    Default

    STEVE, I dont trade this way so my answer might be complete rubbish. I cant see if you are running a business solely for share trading you could register GST as such. If the share trading was part and parcel of another business then i would think Gst might be claimed back on brokers fees phone bills etc etc. Share trading is not buying or selling goods or services but may become part of another business.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Fukuoka, , Japan.
    Posts
    725

    Default

    I have an even more basic question.

    What is the legal/IRD definition of a trader as opposed to an investor?
    \"The overweening conceit which the greater part of men have of their own abilities [and] their absurd presumption in their own good fortune.\" - <b>Adam Smith</b> - <i>The Wealth of Nations</i>

    The information you have is not the information you want.
    The information you want is not the information you need.
    The information you need is not the information you can obtain.
    The informaton you can obtain costs more than you want to pay.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    New Zealand.
    Posts
    1,221

    Default

    quote:Originally posted by rmbbrave

    I have an even more basic question.

    What is the legal/IRD definition of a trader as opposed to an investor?
    Your "INTENTION"...
    Death will be reality, Life is just an illusion.

  9. #9
    Advanced Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Auckland, , New Zealand.
    Posts
    2,314

    Default

    RMBBRAVE, grey areas .How many houses can you buy and sell?. How many cars can you buy and sell?. How often can you buy and sell shares?.Dont push your luck and you are okay.Macdunk

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Fukuoka, , Japan.
    Posts
    725

    Default



    [/quote]
    Your "INTENTION"...
    [/quote]

    Your intention to do what?
    \"The overweening conceit which the greater part of men have of their own abilities [and] their absurd presumption in their own good fortune.\" - <b>Adam Smith</b> - <i>The Wealth of Nations</i>

    The information you have is not the information you want.
    The information you want is not the information you need.
    The information you need is not the information you can obtain.
    The informaton you can obtain costs more than you want to pay.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •