Listed Property Trusts

[p2r]

Maybe it is people getting their first PIE divies.
I heard someone say you get paid tax paid divies and don't need to declare if the non PIE part is imputed. Any one got a piece of PIE yet?

[kura]

Maybe it is people getting their first PIE divies.
I heard someone say you get paid tax paid divies and don't need to declare if the non PIE part is imputed. Any one got a piece of PIE yet?

Yep, I got a piece of PIE from my AMP NZ Office Trust units (APT) last week, the dividend advice clearly split the dividend between the imputed taxable part (approx 1/3rd) and the non taxable part that shouldn't be put in your tax return at all (approx 2/3rds)

Under the "pre PIE" scenario, the non imputed portion would have been subject to withholding tax, and the entire dividend would have been taxable.

My interpretation, is that govt wanted to even up things between investing in property directly, and investing through a PIE, in a direct investment the owners would claim tax depreciation, so that some of their cash income was effectively "tax free", (same logic applies to capital gains on sale) it may seem strange to get a tax free dividend, but credit where credit is due, at least we have a level playing field in this respect now.

[Lizard]

Some useful stats (not guaranteed!) that might explain why the sector has taken on more interest for me at current prices:



(Apologies for image quality - I'm sure there is a simple way to put excel data in here, but I'm still working it out )

[troyvdh]

Reasonably good volumn and a healthy lift in some of these the other day....perhaps some folk thought that they had fallen enough.KIP and PFI in particular have definitely ceased there previous long term up trend....sure as "Helen,s gonna be gone" land and buildings will over time assume there upward trajectory me thinks.

[kura]

With the Centro problems in Oz, I was thinking that all property companies could be "tarred with the same brush" and this sector is going to be in for some market gloom.

[Billy Boy]

I agree Kura
I have been watching Unit Trusts for some time, maily as divvy stocks.
As the economic bubble swelled, so did the Unit Trust's S/prices. And now
the bubble is deflating, likewise the S/prices.
I also think S/prices have a ways to got yet and as 2008 rolls on we might
well see a few more vacancies appearing in the portfolio's.
Interest rates will remain high through 2008 and this will keep the property
sector (in general) in check.
ING is a very interesting one.
They have been on a rather large buy back program for a few months now.
It makes we wonder. Is it to increase the value to Unit Holders, or to "Prop Up"
the share price ??. If they have a lot of surplus cash then why not expand.
I wonder what the SP would be now without the buy back program. ??
Cheers BB

[p2r]

What is the debt or leverage of each I wonder and where is that debt from eg banks or debentures?
Which sectors - Commercial, retail, industrial where - Auckland/ Wellington? I reckon Retail and Auckland are the best.
What sort of income streams?
How will inflation affect them?

I think that easy gains by revaluing are a thing of the past but actively managed funds could do OK with some growth, good income. tax advantages, NZ dollar, aging population (with heaps of money to invest & spend).

They are always going to be turtles not hares but look pretty good value to me.

[Billy Boy]

What is the debt or leverage of each I wonder and where is that debt from eg banks or debentures?
Which sectors - Commercial, retail, industrial where - Auckland/ Wellington? I reckon Retail and Auckland are the best.
What sort of income streams?
How will inflation affect them?

It's a while ago since I did research on leverage, income streams, etc...
Some Unit trusts have a spread over the different sectors, Others are
selective. ( Like PFI CHP APT). APT is mainly govt. departments.
Go too the websites as most of the info you require will be there, if
not E-Mail them with your questions.
The inflation Q.
Property valuations and rents keep pace with inflation in general and most
rent reviews are on a three yearly basis. Divvys are paid quarterly except
APT who pay h/yearly.
The Area's Q.
That is not one I would like to get into as circumstances can change
very quickly from a unit trusts point of view. Auckland...yes coz 1 third
of NZ population lives there.
Retail shops in the suburbs ?? Not CHCH, re: NAP and the Redwood complexe.
Else... I leave it too the experts.
As a medium to long hold, I go for Growth, Management and Percentage
return on money's invested.
IMO.......
Year 2008 is going to be a rocky ride for Units Trusts as we could start to see
some bizz retrenchment due too our economic climate. Office space & Retail
could face an over supply in the suburbs of the main centres, and other cities.
I think S/Prices may fall a bit yet, second quarter will be a good indicator. Third
quarter could be (repeat "could be") the time to buy.
Cheers BB

[OldRider]

OK,
Which "Sharetrader" sold out a holding in APT today?, sure boosted NZX turnover,
presume this was the sale to the overseas outfit was to take a sizeable postion.

[troyvdh]

And I would like to thank the person who sold me PFI at 118 (yesterday).....some else was even luckier and picked some up at 115......now 129.

Ill go back to sleep now.