Listed Property Trusts

[Sideshow Bob]

Probably format not approved by Dept of Internal Affairs anyway

Do they have a format for betting agreements between individuals on anonymous message board??

Asking for a friend.

[SailorRob]

ha ha ha - no way I am entering into any sort of wager with this sort of language on an anonymous message board!

Appreciate the debate though, considering this was all triggered from your post from 2 days ago which contained this hot take in reference to the listed NZ property entities: “What if someone isn't happy with returns of 1.5%”

Yeah, I stand behind that in real terms - which is all that matters.

From your comments and a very quick look at the statements, they might be able to generate 100-125 million cash, that's a big 'might' and it would take me a week to actually decide on that number, that's around a 1.5% real return if you are lucky.

Is this not so?

And their revenue is down a lot over 5 years in real terms, so whats this massive CAPEX spend achieving?

You seem to have a decent understanding of things but I urge you to consider the points I have made.

Even at these hugely reduced share prices, these companies are NOT good businesses.

[Snoopy]

BETTING AGREEMENT


This Betting Agreement ("Agreement") is made on this [Date], by and between:

• "Sailor Rob," hereafter referred to as "Party A"
• "Laser Eyed Kiwi," hereafter referred to as "Party B"

Collectively referred to as the "Parties."


WHEREAS, the Parties desire to enter into a bet regarding the financial performance of Kiwi Property Group, hereinafter referred to as the "Company."


NOW, THEREFORE, in consideration of the mutual covenants contained herein and for other good and valuable consideration, the receipt and sufficiency of which is hereby acknowledged, the Parties agree as follows:

1. BET: Party A is betting that the Company does not and cannot pay a 9% dividend (based on market cap as of 31st July 2023) out of cash net of ALL expenses, and Party B is betting that it does.
   
2. STAKE: The stake for this bet is $500,000 NZD. The loser shall pay the winner the aforementioned stake within ten (10) business days of the determination of the bet.
   
3. DETERMINATION: The determination of the bet shall be made by reviewing the official financial statements of the Company for the relevant fiscal year, as audited and reported by a recognized accounting firm.
   
4. DISPUTE RESOLUTION: Any disputes arising out of or in connection with this Agreement shall be resolved through arbitration in accordance with NZ law.
   
5. ENTIRE AGREEMENT: This Agreement constitutes the entire agreement between the Parties with respect to the subject matter hereof and supersedes all prior agreements, understandings, negotiations, and discussions, whether oral or written.
   
6. AMENDMENTS: This Agreement may only be amended in writing, and such amendment must be signed by both Parties.
   
7. SEVERABILITY: If any provision of this Agreement is found by a court of competent jurisdiction to be invalid, illegal, or unenforceable, such provision shall be modified to the extent necessary to make it enforceable, and the remaining provisions shall continue in full force and effect.
   
   

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the Parties have executed this Betting Agreement as of the date first above written.

---

"Sailor Rob" (Party A) "Laser Eyed Kiwi" (Party B)

---

Witness

---

Date

Interesting to see how the 'bet' has evolved both by increasing in size and for instead of the loser to giving to their 'named charity of choice', it has become a personal wager.

Or simply shut the troll down and get 100k to your favourite charity at the same time.

But you can't.

As your mouth keeps writing cheques your other end can't cash.

Maybe SailorRob needs the money to pay the IRD all the tax he will owe them on his massive offshore trade wins?

SNOOPY

[Lego_Man]

Interesting to see how the 'bet' has evolved both by increasing in size and for instead of the loser to giving to their 'named charity of choice', it has become a personal wager.



Maybe SailorRob needs the money to pay the IRD all the tax he will owe them on his massive offshore trade wins?

SNOOPY

No comment on the bet, but if you were bullish on the stock, wouldn't you be better achieving the same return profile by buying more stock on margin, rather than bilaterally betting and introducing counterparty risk?. Or where applicable, buying a call option for extra leverage.

The bragging rights part could be solved by screen-shotting your P/L statement ;-)

[SailorRob]

Interesting to see how the 'bet' has evolved both by increasing in size and for instead of the loser to giving to their 'named charity of choice', it has become a personal wager.



Maybe SailorRob needs the money to pay the IRD all the tax he will owe them on his massive offshore trade wins?

SNOOPY

Yes, should go to charity. Can change as not signed yet.

The Sailor doesn't trade and it all falls under conventional FIF.

It's been a VERY decent year to date, but the year is far from over.

[Habits]

Yeah, I stand behind that in real terms - which is all that matters.

From your comments and a very quick look at the statements, they might be able to generate 100-125 million cash, that's a big 'might' and it would take me a week to actually decide on that number, that's around a 1.5% real return if you are lucky.

Is this not so?

And their revenue is down a lot over 5 years in real terms, so whats this massive CAPEX spend achieving?

You seem to have a decent understanding of things but I urge you to consider the points I have made.

Even at these hugely reduced share prices, these companies are NOT good businesses.

Notice the quick switch. Real return. No way you can do business with that

[winner69]

Yes, should go to charity. Can change as not signed yet.

The Sailor doesn't trade and it all falls under conventional FIF.

It's been a VERY decent year to date, but the year is far from over.

Jeez Rob ……didn’t know you were into Energy Infrastructure Funds

Doesn’t seem much of a return from FIF

[ValueNZ]

Real return is everything. Nominal means nothing without being adjusted for inflation

[Habits]

Real return is everything. Nominal means nothing without being adjusted for inflation

Was the sailor man's statement "What if someone isn't happy with returns of 1.5%”

Nothing there about real return. So why the switcheroo.

Think about that for a minute

[SailorRob]

Was the sailor man's statement "What if someone isn't happy with returns of 1.5%”

Nothing there about real return. So why the switcheroo.

Think about that for a minute

I think you need to re read what VNZ wrote.

Nobody thinks in nominal returns, you'd be a moron to do so.

I'm selling a boat for more than what I paid for it 15 years ago... Do I think I made money????

Do you really think the Zimbabwe stock exchange is the best performing in the world?

Look, a lot of people have lost a lot of money in these companies and there will be a lot of explaining to do to partners etc, where people thought they were geniuses but was just one giant leveraged rates play. That money is never coming back, in real terms it's gone. Painful I get it, but learn.