ATM - A2 Milk Corporation Limited

[Harrie]

How dumb is that? First you splash over standard milk that it naturally contains a2 protein then you start to argue that there is no benefit over standard milk. Begs the question, if that's the case then why have it splashed across the milk carton. There can only be one reason and that was to trade on the a2mc brand in an attempt to increase sales?

[dobby41]

How dumb is that? First you splash over standard milk that it naturally contains a2 protein then you start to argue that there is no benefit over standard milk. Begs the question, if that's the case then why have it splashed across the milk carton. There can only be one reason and that was to trade on the a2mc brand in an attempt to increase sales?

Why splash A2 on the cartons - because it removes the differentiation.
This law suit means A2 has to prove it is special in the way they imply otherwise why would they see a problem with Lion saying theirs has A2 as well.
They now need to show that A1 is bad which is why A2 is good - since standard milk has both.

[Harrie]

Why splash A2 on the cartons - because it removes the differentiation.
This law suit means A2 has to prove it is special in the way they imply otherwise why would they see a problem with Lion saying theirs has A2 as well.
They now need to show that A1 is bad which is why A2 is good - since standard milk has both.

There is a differentiation between standard milk and a2 only milk, that is the point. a2mc wants it to be differentiated with standard milk. And so it should. Lion is incorrect in trying to remove the differentiation, and mislead the market, plain and simple.

[blobbles]

Why splash A2 on the cartons - because it removes the differentiation.
This law suit means A2 has to prove it is special in the way they imply otherwise why would they see a problem with Lion saying theirs has A2 as well.
They now need to show that A1 is bad which is why A2 is good - since standard milk has both.

I don't see how a judge would want to wade into that debate. Lions claim doesn't make sense to me, if they are able to successfully prosecute A2 for labelling milk A2 and even if there were doubts about the health benefits, when they subsequently put A2 on their own label, would they not be suing themselves? If Lion then claims they only did it for branding purposes, then they cannot make a claim based on health benefits. Frankly, I fail to see a defensible position for Lion here...

Its pretty easy for A2 I think, which is why they are confident. Personally I think the science (and I have read quite a few of the studies, plus personal anecdotes) is not bad. There is not yet absolute proof, there probably never will be. But proof enough for most people. However, if a judge were to rule in Lions favour, they would be setting a precedent of absolute proof for all goods sold. Then anything that is not proven with absolute certainty (which is impossible anyway, if you know anything about science) and is on sale and claims to have health benefits, should be taken down. Goodbye 90% of all vitamins, supplements, skin care, herbal remedies etc etc.

[dobby41]

I don't see how a judge would want to wade into that debate. Lions claim doesn't make sense to me, if they are able to successfully prosecute A2 for labelling milk A2 and even if there were doubts about the health benefits, when they subsequently put A2 on their own label, would they not be suing themselves? If Lion then claims they only did it for branding purposes, then they cannot make a claim based on health benefits. Frankly, I fail to see a defensible position for Lion here...

Its pretty easy for A2 I think, which is why they are confident. Personally I think the science (and I have read quite a few of the studies, plus personal anecdotes) is not bad. There is not yet absolute proof, there probably never will be. But proof enough for most people. However, if a judge were to rule in Lions favour, they would be setting a precedent of absolute proof for all goods sold. Then anything that is not proven with absolute certainty (which is impossible anyway, if you know anything about science) and is on sale and claims to have health benefits, should be taken down. Goodbye 90% of all vitamins, supplements, skin care, herbal remedies etc etc.

Is Lion saying there are health benefits in their milk?
I don't think so.
A2M won't be prosecuted for labelling their milk as being only A2 protien but rather that they claim health benefits in it being so.
If there is nothing special about A2 only milk then there can't be anything wrong with saying the Lion milk has A2 - it does - fact.
I think it is a fairly clever fight back by Lion. If A2 protien isn't special then saying they have it too can't be misleading as it does.

You can't sell things where you claim health benefits that you can't prove.
Vitamin supplements and herbal remedies walk a fine line and they know they do. There have been prosecutions for stepping over that line.

[blobbles]

Is Lion saying there are health benefits in their milk?

Which makes me think... are A2? A2 are claiming stomach discomfort from A1 on all labelling and marketing material I have seen. Hence their "feel the difference" campaign. They are NOT claiming superior nutrition on marketing material from anything I have read or superior health benefits. A2 therefore would only need to prove that A2 causes less stomach upsets, something they know they can do.

[Harrie]

A2M won't be prosecuting for labelling their milk as being only A2 protien but rather that they claim health benefits in it being so

Don't you mean A2M won't be being prosecuted for labelling....etc? If so Why would Lion do that when they are actively promoting the benefits of a2 protein by saying that their milk contains a2 protein? Actually, its irrelevant anyway. The point is that its misleading and people are not buying pure a2 milk, they are buying standard milk, and that's what the case is all about. false and misleading labeling trying to remove the differentiation from public perception.

If there is nothing special about A2 only milk then there can't be anything wrong with saying the Lion milk has A2 - it does - fact

There is something special about a2 milk, its all a2 protein whereas Lions is not, and needs to be differentiated. This is all about the protections that a2mc have very carefully put in place through patents, and they are going to protect them.

[dobby41]

Don't you mean A2M won't be being prosecuted for labelling....etc?

Yes I did mean prosecuted and have corrected that - thanks.

If so Why would Lion do that when they are actively promoting the benefits of a2 protein by saying that their milk contains a2 protein? Actually, its irrelevant anyway. The point is that its misleading and people are not buying pure a2 milk, they are buying standard milk, and that's what the case is all about. false and misleading labeling trying to remove the differentiation from public perception.

Their plan is working then!
I expect they are trying to make A2 not special so there is no reason not to buy their product - after all it contains A2 also.

There is something special about a2 milk, its all a2 protein whereas Lions is not, and needs to be differentiated. This is all about the protections that a2mc have very carefully put in place through patents, and they are going to protect them.

If that is all true then the court case will be very short because that is the essence of the Lion claim.
A2M is trying to keep A2 protein as special, Lion is trying to say it isn't. One will hinge on the other really.
Would be interesting if the process wasn't going to take so long.

[Harrie]

If that is all true then the court case will be very short because that is the essence of the Lion claim.
A2M is trying to keep A2 protein as special, Lion is trying to say it isn't. One will hinge on the other really.

It may or may not be special but that's not the point really, and one that does not need to be proved. The point is that a2mc milk is all a2 protein whereas Lions is not. Its simply a matter of false and misleading advertising. Using a brand name to give rise to the perception that its all a2 protein. Lion could argue that they used A2 rather than a2, however I think the court will see past that as a deliberate attempt to confuse the market into believing something that it is not. The issue will be, can the court be convinced that there was a deliberate attempt to trade on a2's brand or use similar terminology to a2mc's brand and mis lead the public. "naturally contains" and 100% A2 protein are two completely different concepts.

[couta1]

Quite a price hammering at a 43c drop in a week to date, that's big even for A2.