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  1. #1521
    always learning ... BlackPeter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAC View Post
    We just need a large business to start selling these electric cars, offer special type of insurances as well as finance the loans, electric cars do cost a little more than the gas guzzlers.
    Actually - electric cars are much cheaper to produce and to maintain (if produced in comparable volumes). It is just that at the moment the consumers value them more and are happy to pay more for them . Expect price of electric cars to drop dramatically as soon as they become staple transport ...
    ----
    "Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" (Niels Bohr)

  2. #1522
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    Quote Originally Posted by percy View Post
    Electric vehicles will not run on fresh air.
    They may need electricity.
    So perhaps the projected numbers of electric vehicles,may help us work out future power demands.?
    I would expect 1 million electric vehicles plugged into the grid overnight could lead to power black outs.
    I would also expect an electric bus/train would require a lot more power than a small Toyota.
    I am noticing a growing number of battery bikes on the roads too.
    Your long term vision of 1 million EVs may be about right Percy. But we have a l-o-n-g way to go to reach that point. The government's goal is to have 64,000 EVs on the road by the end of 2021. In September 2017 there were only 4541 EVs on the road! I did some work on the possible implications of EV uptake on the Mercury thread under the 'Fraser's Fantasy' sub heading (posts 1004, 1005, 1016). I worked out that by 2021, Mercury might expect a $2.256m jump in profit by 2021 as a result. Worth having but not game changing. Contact haven't been so active in promoting EVs, but no doubt they can put in place an incentive scheme similar to Mercury's very quickly if it makes market sense. So any prospective annual profit jump for Contact would be 'ballpark similar'.

    I wouldn't expect any power black outs from plugging in EVs overnight. There is plenty of time to put new generation in place to avoid that. I would be more concerned about too many people plugging in their EVs during the day into quickchargers at supermarkets during the winter months. That could exasperate the peak load problem. I think I recall the new generating capacity required with the long term uptake of EVs is something like 20% of all current power use. So if most recharging was done off peak, it is well within the capacity of the current Transpower and local lines capacity to cope with 1 million EVs without substantial new investment in the existing electricity distribution infrastructure.

    SNOOPY
    Last edited by Snoopy; 31-03-2018 at 03:28 PM.
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  3. #1523
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    Default Generation Station Utilisation: FY2016

    The following information I have taken from FY2016. I have chosen this as a representative year because:

    1/ It is the first year in which the closure of Otahuhu was expected, so is more likely indicative of future station use patterns than previous years.
    2/ The hydrological conditions appear more 'normal' than FY2017.

    Contact Energy Hydro Station Generation Capacity Annual Energy Generation Capacity (B) Actual Energy Generated (A) Station Utilization (A)/(B)
    Clyde 464MW 4234GWh 2289GWh 54.1%
    Roxburgh 320MW 2920GWh 1802GWh 61.7%
    Total 4091GWh



    Contact Energy Geothermal Station Generation Capacity Annual Energy Generation Capacity (B) Actual Energy Generated (A) Station Utilization (A)/(B) Notes
    Ohaaki 48MW 438GWh 337GWh 76.9%
    Te Huaka 28MW 256GWh 196GWh 76.7% Completed FY2010
    Wairakei 145MW 1323Wh 1075GWh 81.3%
    Poihipi 65MW 593GWh 407GWh 68.6%
    Te Mihi 166MW 1515GWh 1282GWh 84.6% Completed FY2014
    Total 3297GWh



    Contact Energy Fossil Fuel Station Generation Capacity Annual Energy Generation Capacity (B) Actual Energy Generated (A) Station Utilization (A)/(B)
    Stratford Peaker Gas Turbine 210MW 1916GWh 506GWh 26.4%
    Stratford Combined Cycle 377MW 3440GWh 334GWh 9.7%
    Te Rapa Gas Turbine 44MW 402GWh 221GWh 55.0%
    Total 1061GWh

    Thus we have a representative grand total generation figure of:

    3297GWh + 1061GWh + 4091GWh = 8449GWh

    SNOOPY
    Last edited by Snoopy; 31-03-2018 at 04:13 PM.
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  4. #1524
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    The review announced last week is far reaching and regards electricity as an essential service not a product. That is a change of philosophy and has big implications . I do not know how it will affect those in the electricity industry..

  5. #1525
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    Default CEN valuation FY2017 adjusted for 'thin air capital'

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy View Post

    Thus we have a representative grand total generation figure of:

    3297GWh + 1061GWh + 4091GWh = 8449GWh
    The budget for constructing Te Mihi (166MW) back in FY2013 was $623m (refer to my post 617).

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy View Post
    Using the scaling factor I derived in post 1514, we can now work out the 'thin air capital' that should now be 'off the books' at Contact Energy:

    $494m x 0.74 = $366m

    If we assume 45% gearing then Contact could borrow 0.45 x $366m = $165m against that sum.

    This means the the money available to construct a new power station, using Contact's off balance sheet funds, is:

    $165m + $366m = $531m
    It doesn't look like Contact have accumulated enough thin air capital to construct another Te Mihi. But I reckon there might be enough in the kitty to build a 100MW geothermal station. Assuming that station had a utilisation rate of 85%, by how much would the power generating capacity of Contact Energy increase?

    Energy Generated by New Station Over one year:

    (100MW x 0.85) x 25 x 365 x (1/1000) = 776GWh

    776GWh / 8449GWh = 9.2%

    So this is the multiplication factor we need to increase the value of CEN shares by if we are to include in that the earnings value of the new station that 'could be built', without recourse to raising new capital from shareholders.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy View Post
    My normalised 'eps' figure for Contact Energy is a whole of business cycle figure. I have deemed FY2009 as the start of the representative electricity market from here on in.

    Financial Year CEN Normalised eps
    2009 27.0cps
    2010 25.3cps
    2011 22.4cps
    2012 24.6cps
    2013 27.5cps
    2014 27.1cps
    2015 22.0cps
    2016 22.2cps
    2017 18.7cps
    Multi Year Average 24.1cps

    CEN Business Cycle share Price Average Value:

    = 24.1c / ( 0.72 x 0.06) = $5.58 (based on a 6% gross desired earnings yield before tax). This is the 'fair value' as published in the adjacent table.
    Note the above normalised earning valuation of the previous post does not make any allowance for off balance sheet 'thin air capital' that has been accumulated by Contact Energy. Making this adjustment I get a fair value for Contact Energy of:

    $5.58 x 1.092 = $6.09

    Given that Contact is trading well below that figure, it looks like an 'accumulate' at current market prices. Yet, ever the bargain hunter, I would be on the look out for 20% discount to fair value. That equates to $4.87. I say Contact would be a 'strong buy' should the current market volatility see the share price drop to that level.

    SNOOPY
    Last edited by Snoopy; 31-03-2018 at 04:53 PM.
    Watch out for the most persistent and dangerous version of Covid-19: B.S.24/7

  6. #1526
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    Growing Electric Vehicles will be a major bonus for the power generators, and solar wont be enough to charge are especially if you are out all day and charge your car over night. Some solar panels don't store much power over the night and they suggests you try use more power during the day, which means in winter it'll probably just power your fridge for half the day.

  7. #1527
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    If you buy and sell on the spot with Flick it doesnt matter . The spot at night is usually cheap.Do not use a generator retailer.

  8. #1528
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    I know people are important...really important....and I know Bean Counters rate highly.......but I am somewhat surprised to see this as a price sensitive announcement for a power company.

    "ADMIN: CEN: Contact announces departure of Chief Financial Officer
    08:30a.m.
    CEN
    28/05/2018 08:30
    ADMIN
    PRICE SENSITIVE
    REL: 0830 HRS Contact Energy Limited

    ADMIN: CEN: Contact announces departure of Chief Financial Officer "

  9. #1529
    Divorced from logic Hectorplains's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    I know people are important...really important....and I know Bean Counters rate highly.......but I am somewhat surprised to see this as a price sensitive announcement for a power company.

    "ADMIN: CEN: Contact announces departure of Chief Financial Officer
    08:30a.m.
    CEN
    28/05/2018 08:30
    ADMIN
    PRICE SENSITIVE
    REL: 0830 HRS Contact Energy Limited

    ADMIN: CEN: Contact announces departure of Chief Financial Officer "
    Haha, it was tagged the same on the asx. I had the same WTF moment as you. Remember it's the exchange, not the company, that deems price sensitivity.

    Last quarter report passed without comment here - numbers looked pretty good for Contact.

  10. #1530
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    Timely, thanks Gonzo. Our hydro stand us in good stead to help ameliorate future demand, usage, tech but with the Govt reviewing the sector, there has to be a little worry re the possibility of price caps/ intervention etc. And Winston did want to buy them back at one point. He made his point about them being majorly sold off in the first place(Contact ? being the exception).

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