PEB - Pacific Edge Ltd

[skid]

Is PEB the only outfit the NPNs have agreed commercial terms and price points with?

I keep thinking about that free Sting concert I went to ,compliments of some big pharma co. (with my doctor(PA) friend)-and wondering if the product they were promoting at dinner was the best

[MAC]

It would be interesting to know if the big insurance providers always go for the best products or the less amiable path of a cheaper option either directly or indirectly.

I’m sure they are influenced by what medical professionals demand, what’s best for their patients, and Urologists over time will migrate to the best treatments available, such is the nature of technology adoption within any sector.

Certainly the NPN’s will have negotiated fair and competitive price points with Pacific Edge, and these are the price points that their associated contracted insurers will reimburse at.

But, then there is also the matter of the specific seven value propositions for the HMOs, if a product like Cxbladder comes along, which is better than Cytology and prospectively offers a one third reduction in work up costs, as we have been advised, then that cost reduction will ultimately be pocketed by the insurers.

There is a matter of change and change management within any sector, it’s a five plan, and increasingly the HMOs and insurers will want those commercial reductions in treatment cost, particularly Medicare I think who seen to have a specific drive toward optimising holistic treatment costs for patients from entry to exit.

[skid]

I’m sure they are influenced by what medical professionals demand, what’s best for their patients, and Urologists over time will migrate to the best treatments available, such is the nature of technology adoption within any sector.

Certainly the NPN’s will have negotiated fair and competitive price points with Pacific Edge, and these are the price points that their associated contracted insurers will reimburse at.

But, then there is also the matter of the specific seven value propositions for the HMOs, if a product like Cxbladder comes along, which is better than Cytology and prospectively offers a one third reduction in work up costs, as we have been advised, then that cost reduction will ultimately be pocketed by the insurers.

There is a matter of change and change management within any sector, it’s a five plan, and increasingly the HMOs and insurers will want those commercial reductions in treatment cost, particularly Medicare I think who seen to have a specific drive toward optimising holistic treatment costs for patients from entry to exit.

It may not matter if PEB have negotiated a fair and competitive price--If it is not competitive enough or if some of the players on the short list have other things to offer in the ''package deal'' then it may be better and cheaper for the NPNs to run with another player when all is added up--there are other options ,other than Cytology that would also be a fraction of the work up costs--It doesnt mean it will be fair.
its the kind of thing that if you saw it on 60minutes you would be rather frustrated. But if you have hard earned dosh invested I guess you want to look at all angles.

from an article about Abotts new marketing push

Abbott established a global marketing organization and created the role of chief marketing officer in 2012 in part to recognize the growing importance its corporate identity would play, Mr. Magill said. He said the company plans to spend “tens of millions of dollars” each year on the efforts.

Of course we will know which school of thought is closest to the mark in time--if nothing else -it is an exercise in research

For those who have not given the world of marketing much thought

http://www.practicebuilders.com/blog...ng-healthcare/

[MAC]

Thanks Skid for offering the ongoing opportunity for some to clarify, it's often a noisy place this thread but the trolls seem to be mostly away harassing and scaring newbies elsewhere today.

‘Triage’ and ‘prognostic’ test products aside, there are two quite distinct markets for bladder cancer ‘diagnostic’ test products.

The first is for those that are inferior to Cytology.

Those that are inferior will only ever have a capped specific market as an adjunct tool, they are applied by Urologists between patient probing’s, they offer a bit of confirming information, albeit with limited accuracy, and are used just because they are easy and are non-invasive.

It’s a glass ceiling as they can never replace Cytology in part or in full. These products like NMP22, Urovysion and most probably Abbot, as they are dependent on similar gene expressions, fall into this category.

They are not as reliable or dependable as Cytology and are probably priced as such as, Urologists cannot rely on them when lives are at stake, and, the US is a very litigious place to make percentage bets when lives are in ones hands.

Cxbladder clinically outperforms all other tests within this first market, and because it has high sensitivity, 100% for most early stage tumors, it is a much lower litigation risk, and will demand a price point in commensuration of those two reasons.

The second potential market, whereby over time, a five year plan perhaps, Cxbladder may for some or even most applications may replace cytology, no other test in the market or within two to three years of commercialisation offers this prospect.

It is this market that offers the really really big potential commercial gains.

The work that Pacific Edge are doing with Kaiser Permanente as a proving ground, including but not limited to the 2,000 test user programme, as a demonstration to the market, may well be the catalyst for market adoption by many other HMOs. Once one HMO is realising the gains, both clinical and commercial, they will all want it, such is the nature of markets.

And, 2015 is the year when this demonstration work is planned to come to fruition.

[Dentie]

It may not matter if PEB have negotiated a fair and competitive price--If it is not competitive enough or if some of the players on the short list have other things to offer in the ''package deal'' then it may be better and cheaper for the NPNs to run with another player when all is added up--there are other options ,other than Cytology that would also be a fraction of the work up costs--It doesnt mean it will be fair.
its the kind of thing that if you saw it on 60minutes you would be rather frustrated. But if you have hard earned dosh invested I guess you want to look at all angles.

from an article about Abotts new marketing push

Abbott established a global marketing organization and created the role of chief marketing officer in 2012 in part to recognize the growing importance its corporate identity would play, Mr. Magill said. He said the company plans to spend “tens of millions of dollars” each year on the efforts.

Of course we will know which school of thought is closest to the mark in time--if nothing else -it is an exercise in research

For those who have not given the world of marketing much thought

http://www.practicebuilders.com/blog...ng-healthcare/

This is startling to read, even though I am aware of the (sometimes unfortunate) power of marketing. It is all about smoke and mirrors and lots of money along the way - such is our capitalist society. With money comes greed and those who are the greediest will do whatever is necessary to get the money - and I mean whatever is necessary....just ask the 1%!! Words like "Sincerity", "honesty" and "integrity" etc are not part of these people's vocabulary.

Generally, he who has the deepest pockets normally comes out on top - even though they may be a total fraud. Although it might be harmless to one's health if one uses an inferior video cassette, iPhone, computer, car or whatever other item there is ..............but if one is sold (or advised to use) an inferior health product - it could literally mean life or death. Again unfortunately, the poor old punter has no option but to trust his professional advisor so it really does become a gamble. How many times to do we see the innocent and trusting punter get fleeced of his hard earned dosh? Daily!!

IMHO, marketing is used to bring products to the attention to the uneducated, un-notified or unwary. In the case of the health sector in general (not just PEB's market!!), I believe these so-called professionals not only have a duty of care to the people who are relying on them, but they have an absolute obligation to educate themselves as to what is the best available product available for their patient - and then they should be using it. In other words, they should not be making their "product usage" decisions based on who might be the better marketer.

As I've said before, I am still invested into PEB because I genuinely believe they have the best product and intentions. Because I have learned the hard way years ago (see above), I have taken my original capital off the table months ago. But I am leaving the rest of the profit on the table in the belief PEB will eventually shine - because of their product suite ... not due to a slicker marketing campaign. As they say ... the cream eventually rises to the top.

[skid]

unfortunately people get inferior health products all the time by insurance providers--sad but true.
You are in an enviable position with profit on the table.

Many are faced with either,lost opportunity, or lost hard earned cash,(or vice versa)which I suppose is the reason for the debate.

As some one pointed out-every one has a different tolerance to risk.

That decision will become easier with time,for those that are prepared to sacrifice some short term gains, for a better insight into how things are going.

For the others,it will show if they have taken the right punt.

[AndyLP]

Hey snap

Do you have some numbers handy for Matritech's NMP22 sales from the early days?
I went through the market releases from '95 on wards. Couldn't find much for earlier than that.

Anyways, looks like it took Matritech till '02 to crack 3.2m in revenue from all sources. (3.2m as double the PEB HY, its also what Edison have)
NMP22 product sales made up around half of that.

Roughly 7 years. Interestingly it seems they had a few dreadful flat and/or backwards years even after getting FDA approval in July of '96.

Reading the boards from back then is pretty funny though. Comments like "See you all on my yacht in 2001!" - dated '97

[MAC]

Well yes all investors have a different strategy and risk tolerance.

I really wish I could identify disruptive science early on like NT001 and Hancock’s do, buying early stage start-up penny stocks sitting back and watching them become dollar stocks, complement’s intended, I haven’t got the scientific background for that, ah well.

One of the challenges for investors in companies like Pacific Edge is that the biotech market is quite closed in terms of information release. One can’t just google for progress or traction like one can with say a retail stock, or follow commodity prices and sector trends like with mining stocks etc.

Establishing traction and progress for a shareholder really all comes down to what information the company releases, the underlying efficacy of their strategic business model and their moat, Pacific Edge have a relatively high moat IMO.

Sentiment will tend to come and go because of that on information flow, so will the SP, but we certainly haven’t yet seen the highs for this company yet by any means, it’s early days.

I bought the five year plan and am a content shareholder watching it roll out, provided they remain competitive, and they are, and provided they more or less work through the commercialisation sequence in a reasonably timely fashion, and they pretty much are, than all is well and good.

Each to their own view, mine is that we are 18 months or thereabouts into that Cxbladder plan and the company and management are entirely on track.

I suspect within that same timeframe we may also see a colorectal, gastric or melanoma strategic plan in place, perhaps adding or even doubling the valuation of the company along the way too.

[skid]

With all respect ,you have stated in the first half of your post,how hard it is to get concrete information and then followed that with a number of assumptions.
I dont think any one knows that we certainly havent seen the highs for this co.--or that the commercialization sequence is being worked through in a timely fashion -or that management are entirely on track.
Thats what the debate is all about --we can all have opinions but thats what they are at this stage.

We know the product is good--but we dont know about the management or commercialization process--we do know that the jury is still out as far as the market goes by the share price.

[skid]

With all respect ,you have stated in the first half of your post,how hard it is to get concrete information and then followed that with a number of assumptions.
I dont think any one knows that we certainly havent seen the highs for this co.--or that the commercialization sequence is being worked through in a timely fashion -or that management are entirely on track.
Thats what the debate is all about --we can all have opinions but thats what they are at this stage.

We know the product is good--but we dont know about the management or commercialization process--we do know that the jury is still out as far as the market goes by the share price.

(ok-im sure it will fluctuate above 74c but the other two assumptions are more of a stretch