PEB - Pacific Edge Ltd

[kiora]

Tax losses???

[winner69]

What exactly is the rationale for refunds? The tests are currently funded.

Stirring again are we..?

Was asking what psychic what he may have meant when he mentioned refunds

[winner69]

It was about 10 years ago that our David Darling was super excited when he talked about their entry in Spain which has the highest rate of bladder cancer in the world.

Spain and the EU was at their mercy …….Dave used the word transformational a lot back then.

Was enough for me to give PEB some actual cash (like through a capital raise and not buying somebody else’s shares). Was good as I think the new ones were at 55 cents but market was selling well over a buck at the time. Because I’ve actually out real cash in their bank once I still feel I own a bit (even though sold out) of the company and that gives me license to say what I want about them

[psychic]

Was asking what psychic what he may have meant when he mentioned refunds

I'll have to dig back to evidence this, but there were refunds made at around the time I was having this grand debate on here with Miner (RIP Sandy mate) over the meaning and implication of the term "medically necessary". DD the magician was implying the CxBladder tests were "medically necessary" when I argued that the CMS "coverage" (unintended I believed) applied only when and if the tests were medically necessary. I argued they were not, as the AUA and NCCN had pretty much said they were not and and I thought it pretty unlikely that a Urologist in the US might stick his head out beyond the recommendation of his governing body and the guidelines and say one was. . Anyway, it was one of a number of DD's play on words, all smoke and mirrors really.

But Winner, you are an accounts buff. Have a read of the notes. Scary really. If you read through revenue recognition etc you may agree that this determination by CMS / Novitas creates a few problems, one of which might be further refunds (or in the very least , significant write-offs.)

See, when a Urologist orders a test, PE are obliged to run and report results back. Its sales contract is still actually with the poor sod with blood in the Urine, not CMS or Kaiser or sundy Insurer (of which there are practically none covering anyway imo). If the individual is covered by Medicare, then an invoice is raised to CMS - no doubt on the basis that the test was medically necessary. So PE have this tortuous process for revenue recognition using their experience and judgement as to the likelihhod of payment being received. But they acknowledge all this wizardry and the revenue assumptions are subject to (imagined, ongoing) cms approval.


edit The notes in the 2023 accounts (receivables) record refunds in the US for the past 2 years. I assumed these relate to sales recorded but then declined by CMS but don't know this. $271000 2023, $171000 2022. I'd suggest both these will be reviewed....

[psychic]

Out of curiosity Balance…what is your rationale for 30c ?
I was thinking much lower.

30 cents was the gap. Sadly agree, I don't tghink it will find much support there right now.
Its such a frikkin shame. The science seemed to be so good and offer so much promise. Likely still does. Why tf didn't they do the right thing, get full validation first in the US before going down this hard sell route. Gutted tbh, always hoped they'd get there.

[psychic]

The purpose of the LCD is not to limit beneficiary access to care but to ensure that Medicare is paying for services/tests that are deemed medically reasonable and necessary as supported by evidence.

At this time, the Contractor does not have an LCD with a positive coverage statement for any of the Pacific Edge Diagnostics tests which include the Cxbladder Detect (CPT code 0012M) and Cxbladder Monitor (CPT code 0013M). These CPT codes are only located in the article Billing and Coding: Molecular Pathology and Genetic Testing A58917 which includes the statement “This instruction focuses on coding and billing for molecular pathology diagnostics and genetic testing. Nothing stated in this instruction implies or infers coverage.”

This copied from cms responses to submissions regarding cxbladder
It seems to confirm that they never had Cms coverage. Class action anyone?

https://www.cms.gov/medicare-coverag...d=59417&ver=17

[psychic]

The response also leaves the door open for PE to reapply. A long process I would imagine?

[Balance]

30 cents was the gap. Sadly agree, I don't tghink it will find much support there right now.
Its such a frikkin shame. The science seemed to be so good and offer so much promise. Likely still does. Why tf didn't they do the right thing, get full validation first in the US before going down this hard sell route. Gutted tbh, always hoped they'd get there.

It is very sad for PEB shareholders, management and staff indeed.

It is also extremely disappointing for NZ as a country as we desperately need companies like PEB to blaze a path for other biomed NZ companies to follow (just like FPH did before). Think of the inspiration that our young scientists and graduates in the universities can obtain if PEB is a huge success.

Agree that PEB should have obtained full validation and FDA approval first before jumping into the US with both feet.

$200m+ and 20 years - so very sad.

[850man]

The market and shareholders were misled by prior announcements from PEB, this is more than sad, it's criminal

[RTM]

Completely agree. NZ Inc would have really benefited from this company being successful.
Really disappointing in so many ways, not the least of which is the pain born by shareholders over the years.
I was one of those at one stage.

30 cents was the gap. Sadly agree, I don't tghink it will find much support there right now.
Its such a frikkin shame. The science seemed to be so good and offer so much promise. Likely still does. Why tf didn't they do the right thing, get full validation first in the US before going down this hard sell route. Gutted tbh, always hoped they'd get there.

It is very sad for PEB shareholders, management and staff indeed.

It is also extremely disappointing for NZ as a country as we desperately need companies like PEB to blaze a path for other biomed NZ companies to follow (just like FPH did before). Think of the inspiration that our young scientists and graduates in the universities can obtain if PEB is a huge success.

Agree that PEB should have obtained full validation and FDA approval first before jumping into the US with both feet.

$200m+ and 20 years - so very sad.