PEB - Pacific Edge Ltd

[blobbles]

Regarding the Kaiser user programme, they are testing people with hematuria right? 2000 thousand people...

From memory the bladder cancer rate for people with hematuria is 5-6%, so expect 100-150 people to actually have bladder cancer. It is these people that will be monitored using CxBladder after detecting their bladder cancer and during/after having it dealt with. So recurring test likely won't be on the 2000, but will be on the 100-150. That is the 2 million tests they are targeting, recurring tests of patients that have had cancer.

Another interesting thing will be to see how long the user programme is. It could quite feasibly be a year or longer if they are doing a full test of the system including detecting reoccurance. I also assume they will be doing the programme side by side with current treatment methods, but where are they doing the actual tests within the process? I remember PEB released a flow chart of the current treatment plan for patients presenting with hematuria moving through to bladder cancer. They had added where CxBladder could be used in the process, are they testing each of these points with the user programme? If not, which ones? Hopefully they will release a plan for the user programme we can see...

[MAC]

Regarding the Kaiser user programme, they are testing people with hematuria right? 2000 thousand people...

From memory the bladder cancer rate for people with hematuria is 5-6%, so expect 100-150 people to actually have bladder cancer. It is these people that will monitored using CxBladder after detecting their bladder cancer and during/after having it dealt with. That is the 2 million tests they are targeting...

My notebook says there were 74,000 new cases of bladder cancer in 2013 from around about 2 million presentations of haematuria, so yep around 3.7% will have cancer. So thus 74 may require a further work-up.

The user programme though is only six months in duration, long enough to process and screen test 2,000 haematuria patients against the performance of cytology, maybe long enough to further test the 74 I don’t know, probably, possibly.

I agree it would make some sense for KP to want to try and work through all the value propositions, for the 74 patients, I’m just not sure that can be done within a six month duration.

Hancock’s might have a better feel for that.

[MAC]

What is your time frame for the conclusion of the KP user programme and signing afterwards MAC?

It would take an insider to be sure wouldn't it Moosie, but there are some things we've been advised of.

Pacific Edge have been in talks with KP since late last year, my expectation would be that the eight value propositions have been quite well discussed and understood, and it is fair that KP should wish to trial new internal processes along with new diagnostic test providers before a final commitment to terms for which will probably be a long term contract.

Pacific Edge in the announcement said that the user programme would run from late this year into early 2015.

Because a lot of probably both commercial and clinical discussion has already been had, we may see a roll over quite soon after.

I'm supportive of Pacific Edge taking as long as is needed though to get it right, especially for the first HMO in the queue. There’s no point rushing in for a terms worse than they could have got. It's better that it takes as long as it takes.

I'm quite content with this whole user programme strategy actually, lot's more to come, let's see.

[Carpenterjoe]

The US law system is simple... if for example a urologist used methods that was in the written clinical pathways and for what ever reason fark it up he would be sued but he would also be covered by their own indemnity insurance..... how ever if the urologist decided to go outside the written clinical pathways, for example use cx bladder, and farked it up they would be sued but may not be covered by their indemnity insurance. This is a huge hurdle for PEB and whilst it remains a great product there will be a very slow uptake by urologist until cx bladder is included in the written clinical pathways.

I'm not sure this is completely correct, I think a urologist has to use all reasonable means to correctly diagnose cancer. Pathways are used as guides for practitioners, if a patient suspects a practitioner ignored modern means of diagnostic a malpractice case could be formed. Remember most malpractice law suits fail, its not only the payout that's expensive, its the defence. Yes their insurance will financially protect them, but lose of face, damage to their practice, poor reputation, on-going losses is not compensated. Its in the urologists best interests to use the most modern forms of diagnostics.

Pathways will change after time, after lawsuits, after deaths, you might be waiting sometime for cxbladder to be installed in a pathway. I expect sales to have progressed well before this point.
Again targeting insures is the key, they are doing this.

This company needs investor support, and a lot of patience.
I think Profitability is a long way off.

[Snow Leopard]

It would be a few years down the road if it all but:

Potential 'universal' blood test for cancer discovered

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Hoop]

It would be a few years down the road if it all but:

Potential 'universal' blood test for cancer discovered

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Well timed post PT..

Shareholders have to keep reminding themselves that PEB is operating in the Bio Techology sector that is heavily affected by the current Industrial Revolution (IR)...

With IR new and innovative change takes hold and develops at an exponential pace causing recent events to be quickly outdated at an accelerating pace

Companies have to continuously adapt or perish...Is PEB able to do this??..

Disc: I'm a recent "large" investor

[Ginger_steps_]

It would be a few years down the road if it all but:

Potential 'universal' blood test for cancer discovered

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

The question is - will it be able to determine the location of the cancer? I highly doubt analysing the white blood cell damage with UV light will be able to determine the location of the cancer. Of course the patients symptoms may provide some clues but often patients do not present symptoms until later stages. I lost my mother to cancer 6 years ago - and the doctors never located the primary tumour, only secondaries (she used public and private hospitals with numerous scans). This meant operating would only be a short term band-aid and would only hinder the quality of her remaining life - unless they were able to locate and remove the primary tumour. So in the context of this new technology - knowing that cancer is present or forthcoming is one thing, but will they need products such as CXbladder to determine the location?

[robbo24]

and then you have to deal with the insurance company policies and very good lawyers. I am not debating the guidelines or use of........ More often than not indemnity insurance companies covering malpractice have their own set of rules on what will be covered and what want be covered. Steeping outside the current perceived best practice may will not be covered and therefore may open up the clinician for litigation that is not covered by his/her indemnity insurance. Just something to consider when evaluating the sales timeline in a country where malpractice lawsuits are very common.

You should post a few sample medical professional liability insurance policies on here. I am really interested to see what you have been reading to come up with your wacky ideas.

[NT001]

I would imagine that Jackie and her team must be pretty well versed in all this stuff, and it would be traversed extensively whenever they go out to talk to urologists or their insurers and others involved.

I admire the amount of research some on this thread have been putting in, but wonder how much point there is in trying to second-guess the urologists, lawyers and over-arching user groups in USA from this distance. It seems to me that it could be useful to put some questions to DD on this and ask him to answer them through one of the media pieces or briefings he sometimes does. It's obviously got to be part of the CxB sales pitch.

[MAC]

DD does like to tell the story, which is just as well I’ve always thought as there’s a lot of it. The double shot’s a good ‘you beaut’ summary NT, October last year but all good. About time for another one perhaps ?