sharetrader
Page 196 of 196 FirstFirst ... 96146186192193194195196
Results 2,926 to 2,935 of 2935
  1. #2926
    Guru
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    New Zealand.
    Posts
    2,870

    Default

    Chris Lee yesterday launched his book Billion dollar bonfire, well worth a read imo.

  2. #2927
    Guru peat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Whanganui, New Zealand.
    Posts
    4,654

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by whatsup View Post
    Chris Lee yesterday launched his book Billion dollar bonfire, well worth a read imo.
    relevant article here, https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/...ectid=12228125

    and I dont even think its premium so aren't you guys lucky
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  3. #2928
    Legend minimoke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Christchurch, New Zealand.
    Posts
    6,375

    Default

    "Lee's portrayal of Hubbard makes no bones that he had deep flaws, including operating the same kind of Ponzi scheme that brought down famous fraudsters, New Zealand's own David Ross and New York's Bernie Madoff, both of whom are still serving lengthy prison sentences."

  4. #2929
    Legend Balance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    10,387

    Default

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/117...ensation-fight

    Chris Lee trying to get taxpayers to bail out his clients who he put into SCF preference shares?

    Taxpayers are already out of pocket by $1.6 billion, no thanks to the Allan Hubbard and his gross mismanagement and incompetent lending and investing practices.

    Suggestion for Chris (he once thought the sun shone out of Allan's posterior and considered him to be a financial giant) - sue Forsyth Barr and himself.

  5. #2930
    Permanent Newbie
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    965

    Default

    I haven't read his book but wonder why he thinks taxpayers should bail out South Canterbury Finance shareholders?

    Sadly one lot of participants in the collapse of the finance companies who played a big part but were not held responsible were "investment advisors" who advised clients to invest in finance company debentures while they collected commissions from the finance companies. It was outrageous but no one was ever held to account as far as I know. I heard stories like a widower asking a financial advisor how she should invest her life insurance payout and was told to put it all in mix of finance company debentures. I think Northplan in Whangarei got people out of diversified portfolios and overweight in Bridgecorp debentures.

  6. #2931
    Veteran novice
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    , , .
    Posts
    6,649

    Default

    Yes, Aaron, but we must not forget that finance company debentures were highly popular at the time, particularly amongst those who didn't understand or trust the sharemarket - the 1987 crash still loomed large in many memories - and attractive returns were scarce, apart from finance company rates!
    I spent a lot of time convincing a close friend who wanted to put his mother-in-laws nestegg into a variety of finance co.'s to instead seek out good quality industrial debentures on the secondary market. These were available from time to time and he bought a few parcels. Unfortunately, he also put some money into South Canterbury Finance....
    Last edited by macduffy; Today at 09:45 AM.

  7. #2932
    Permanent Newbie
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    965

    Default

    2.5% over bank deposits according to this article.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/...ectid=10456901

    How do you assess risk and the premium you need to justify it. Nearly impossible I would say.

    People are currently foolish having money in the bank but it could be worse if there is a crisis and what is the investment alternative in this current environment.

  8. #2933
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    2.5% over bank deposits according to this article.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/...ectid=10456901

    How do you assess risk and the premium you need to justify it. Nearly impossible I would say.
    At the time, you could buy 7 year Infratil bonds at issue with an 11% coupon. The problem was, those didn't pay advisers 4% commission.

    Both Bridgecorp and Capital & Merchant used to run around talking up the "Lloyd's Guarantee" on their debentures, which was a total fiction. Ironically, you only had to read the Investment Statement to find that out.

    Basically most of the finance companies were Ponzi schemes. They were paying quarterly interest on the debentures but capitalising the interest on the loans to property developers, leading to a big funding mismatch. As soon as people stopped investing or reinvesting in the debentures, the whole thing collapsed.
    Last edited by Tronald Dump; Today at 01:35 PM.

  9. #2934
    Permanent Newbie
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    965

    Default

    11% what a juicy yield. Unthinkable today but it makes you wonder how much less risky Infratil is today than it was back then. I am left leaning but I can't help think the market should be left to decide interest rates.

    That is the good thing about finance company accounts when the developers stop paying their loans you capitalise the interest so your interest income is growing and your loan assets on the Balance Sheet are also growing. To bad if it is difficult to provision for bad debts. I think it was Hanover Finance that paid its shareholders a dividend just prior to the s**t hitting the fan, basically sucking out any cash left and ensuring the shareholders owed the company nothing and leaving debenture holders high and dry. This is just hearsay though as I never looked at the financial statements.
    Last edited by Aaron; Today at 01:54 PM.

  10. #2935
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    11% what a juicy yield. Unthinkable today but it makes you wonder how much less risky Infratil is today than it was back then. I am left leaning but I can't help think the market should be left to decide interest rates.
    My point was that Infratil bonds were probably priced appropriately for the risk, whereas clearly debentures were not. Anyone with half a brain could have seen that. The market will decide rates and spreads, but only if it's and informed/intelligent market.

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •