South Canterbury Finance Limited

[Balance]

Lol Balance

HMF is NOT Aorangi

The inadequacy of HMF accounting systems is NOT a breach of the duty of care, even for HMF.

The Statutory Manager's report is sub standard. It fails to address the critical question of why Allan Hubbard was subject to this extreme regulation. It is quite clear that Allan Hubbard was put under statutory management with insufficient grounds. There is not a single matter of the "public interest" addressed in the report. There are a number of matters that could be reviewed under standard commercial intervention. There is NOTHING that justifies the statutory management of Allan Hubbard as a matter of public interest.

The Statutory Manager is proceeding without professional integrity. He clearly believes he is in some kind of insolvency assignment - he is not. He simply cannot proceed to do a pile of "best practice" type of investigations, under classical insolvency guidelines. He needs to demonstrate the issues of vital "public interest" that do not have conventional commercial remedy.

Everyone, in this process, has forgotten about Allan Hubbard's rights.

That is why the judicial review is now urgently needed.

The reference to inadequate records is to Aorangi as well. Please read carefully.

Enough said.

[Enumerate]

The reference to inadequate records is to Aorangi as well. Please read carefully.

Well, they why did YOU quote the HMF commentary?

No - because the Report refers to : "In our opinion the accounting systems for HMF are not adequate.
 Because of the nature of HMF’s accounting systems, it is not possible to accurately calculate the
value of HMF at any time. HMF is presently estimated to be $70 million. The actual value of
HMF will not be known until the reconciliation is completed as at 31 March 2010 and then
updated to 20 June 2010."

"A lack of paper work is also impeding our progress. The standard of the paper work for the entities
is not what we would have expected to have found for business entities of this size and complexity.
As a result, we will need some time to complete a review of the position and to decide what action is
needed."

I am reading carefully. Maybe it is you that should be following your own advice?

[Balance]

Well, they why did YOU quote the HMF commentary?



I am reading carefully. Maybe it is you that should be following your own advice?

It was a trap - obvious you have not read the report carefully! If you have, you would not have referred to the second excerpt as that of HMF.

Refer to Page 3 of Report.

[Balance]

There is no statement in the SM Report that Aorangi made an offer to the public. As I said above, that doesn't mean there wasn't, but your statements are astoundingly biased in one direction with no apparent 'balance' whatsoever.

You seem to be willing to convict AH before any definitive evidence is actually presented.

I don't know for certain whether he is or is not guilty, but I do know that I believe in the rule of law, whereas your posts support 'kangaroo courts' and summary judgement.

If he is guilty, then why are you so scared of due process? If he is guilty, then he will be convicted and rightly so.

However, if he is not guilty, then the arbitary seizure of his assets by the state will have been a heinous act.




Alan.

I am not scared of due process - that is what sets NZ apart from Russia.

There is acse for SM in my view however in circumstances which warrant it - I prefer the Government to act rather than wait for AH to continue his way of taking funds from the public and dispensing the funds as he saw fit. The mess would have only gotten bigger.

Especially when it is becoming clear the bulk of funds raised were being put to related party use.

That has always been my beef with AH and SCF - now the truth is coming out.

Meanwhile, the govt has not seized his assets - it has moved to protect investors' funds. The assets and funds are frozen. Big difference.

How do you read the transfer of assets to charitable trusts?

BTW - I commend Enumerate and you on your principled stand on due process. Good on you.

[Enumerate]

It was a trap - obvious you have not read the report carefully! If you have, you would not have referred to the second excerpt as that of HMF.

Refer to Page 3 of Report.

And the reason we were talking about this is your assertion of a breach of a duty of care - that there is too much on paper - and the second excerpt is about the fact there is not enough on paper. Neither point justifies your breach of a duty of care.

Clever, cunning, Balance ... I was so distracted by your illogical argument - I fell right into it.

Pity, I thought we were talking about serious issues. I thought this was something other than an idle game.

[Balance]

And the reason we were talking about this is your assertion of a breach of a duty of care - that there is too much on paper - and the second excerpt is about the fact there is not enough on paper. Neither point justifies your breach of a duty of care.

Clever, cunning, Balance ... I was so distracted by your illogical argument - I fell right into it.

Pity, I thought we were talking about serious issues. I thought this was something other than an idle game.

It is serious.

You are concerned about due process and rightly so.

I am concerned about how AH has been using investors' money - read back this thread. Everything coming out now reinforces my concerns and confirms the need to act.

[Enumerate]

There is acse for SM in my view however in circumstances which warrant it - I prefer the Government to act rather than wait for AH to continue his way of taking funds from the public and dispensing the funds as he saw fit. The mess would have only gotten bigger.

As pointed out before, there is a case for Aorangi investors (and certainly HMF investors) to be eligible people, exempt from the section 2 provisions of the Securities Act.

Especially when it is becoming clear the bulk of funds raised were being put to related party use.

That has always been my beef with AH and SCF - now the truth is coming out.

Related party transactions are not illegal. If you consider a company like Macquarie - almost everything it does is a related party transaction.

Do not confuse an Allan Hubbard investment with the related party loans of Hanover or Bridgecorp.

[Balance]

As pointed out before, there is a case for Aorangi investors (and certainly HMF investors) to be eligible people, exempt from the section 2 provisions of the Securities Act.



Related party transactions are not illegal. If you consider a company like Macquarie - almost everything it does is a related party transaction.

Do not confuse an Allan Hubbard investment with the related party loans of Hanover or Bridgecorp.

I am not confused at all! The SM Report makes it clear that AH's related party loans may not even be properly documented or secured!

Excerpts : Some investors, who believed their investments were secured over land, may not in fact have this
security.

The level of investments in (including loans to) businesses associated with Mr and Mrs Hubbard
without registered security is of concern. Most of these investments are in or to farm businesses
that have loans from banks secured by a mortgage over the assets of the farm. This could mean,
in the case of direct investments in those farm businesses, that Aorangi would only be paid after
the creditors of those businesses were fully paid. There may therefore be a risk in certain
circumstances that Aorangi does not recover all the money due to it.

[Alan3285]

I am not scared of due process - that is what sets NZ apart from Russia.

There is acse for SM in my view however in circumstances which warrant it - I prefer the Government to act rather than wait for AH to continue his way of taking funds from the public and dispensing the funds as he saw fit. The mess would have only gotten bigger.

Especially when it is becoming clear the bulk of funds raised were being put to related party use.

That has always been my beef with AH and SCF - now the truth is coming out.

Meanwhile, the govt has not seized his assets - it has moved to protect investors' funds. The assets and funds are frozen. Big difference.

How do you read the transfer of assets to charitable trusts?

BTW - I commend Enumerate and you on your principled stand on due process. Good on you.

Thank you.

However, I just don't understand how putting Allan Hubbard and his wife (them as individuals) into Stat Mgt in any way furthers the protection of investors in Aorangi above and beyond putting that company into Stat Mgt.

It is all about degrees perhaps, but what has happened seems out of all proportion to the situation.

Alan.

[Balance]

Thank you.

However, I just don't understand how putting Allan Hubbard and his wife (them as individuals) into Stat Mgt in any way furthers the protection of investors in Aorangi above and beyond putting that company into Stat Mgt.

It is all about degrees perhaps, but what has happened seems out of all proportion to the situation.

Alan.

AH's affairs are so intertwined with that of Aorangi and other entities - that's why.

Ah has too high a public profile and is too highly regarded for anything to be swept under the carpet if the SM is proven to be unjustified and unwarranted. Heads will roll. Of that I have total confidence.