South Canterbury Finance Limited

[winner69]

Sandy knows what he is doing. Hubbard would not be subject to Statutory Management if he didn't. Think about it.

Bingo ..... bingo

(had to do 2 bingos cause need 10 characters)

[Enumerate]

Emotions are not tools of cognition."

And another "A is A."

Hubbard is required to work within the regulations - A is A.

I think you will actually find that Ayn Rands attitude to government regulation is that it doesn't make the world a better place to live in.

The notion of Hubbard as a Randian hero fails on many levels. However, so does the notion of Hubbard as a villain.

I am quite sure Rand would not support the taxpayer taking a bath for his oversights.

Probably true - but for reasons that I am not sure you understand.

She also would not want Balance banned. Free speech is an inconvenient thing.

If Ayn Rand were the champion of speaking gibberish - you might have a case. It may surprise you that I, again, agree with you. Balance is free to express his view - however irrational it may be. I note I stated "if this thread was moderated" which as the meaning that if a moderator was active - their usual modus operandi is to stop childish name calling and taunts as a substitute for rational debate. This is my meaning ... you have misinterpreted.

Sandy knows what he is doing. Hubbard would not be subject to Statutory Management if he didn't. Think about it.

You are a victim of the securities industry rumour mill. There are those on the thread more than willing to follow the opinion of someone allegedly "connected" to inside knowledge. I am not one of them.

You pretend to know what Sandy Maier is thinking.

Maybe you can tell us what Simon Botherway is thinking ... and who he is sharing his opinions with?

[Enumerate]

Bingo ..... bingo

Ahh Winner is back.

He obviously shares the same rumour mill as Capitalist.

I wonder if he knows what Simon Botherway is thinking?

[winner69]

In case you missed it earlier in the debate here's a comment posted on interest.co.nz .... would Richards parents be classed as sophisticated or whatever?

Great article Bernard,

I have some personal experience from my parents investing intially with SCF, then with Aorangi Securities.

My parents invested in excess of seven figures in Aorangi. After returning from my OE in the UK I asked them what Aorangi was and what it invested in. The answer was they didn't know. I asked where the investment prospectus or statement was. Again they didn't know.

They invested in Aorangi due to Hubbard suggesting they do so. They invested more than $1million into a company they did not understand what it invested in other than "Hubbard had been investing for a long time and has a lot of money, he obviously knows what he is doing".

I believe there were no ongoing statements of balance and fund performance other than the regular payments. As the payments were returning a good percentage return no questions were asked (a la the Madoff scenario).

Like you I believe Hubbard thrives on the VW image. "He is obviously not a crook, look at the old beat up car he drives". If Hubbard had been a flashy suit how succesful would he have been in Timaru?

Luckily I convinced my parents to ditch Hubbard earlier this year. No doubt they are sleeping easier because of that.

Richard




For those interested

http://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/op...angerous-thing

[Beagle]

Take heart, Roger. There are many of us who read your postings and find them very useful and enlightening.

I am sure those who are looking for perceptive and useful infor now know who to read, and who not to.

Old adage comes tro mind - "Don't suffer fools - because you will become a fool as well."

We have all had our fun with Enumerate and his rantings and ravings.
Last edited by Balance; Today at 02:40 PM.

Thanks for that encouragement Balance.

I really enjoy a good debate with rational intelligent people....enough said.

Oh, before I go and do some real work........Enumerate, when the SM gets around to having to liquidate AH's little ponzi scheme, there will be real harm done you just wait and see. In the meantime Id bet my last dollar at least half the investors in Aorangi are absolutly sweating bullets and losing sleep, I know, I've been there and its a slow buring hell, a real Chineese water torture, now I've laid it all bare for all to see why I feel so strongly about proper legal proceedures and compliance with the Securities Act.

But when will the Judiciary wake up and realise that white collar crime is real crime ? Will that ever occur ? For example the directors of Five star finance only got 12 months home detention for raising money from the public without a Prospectus, (no this was not the side company I was involved with).

This sentance is completly contempable. Take a gun, rob a bank of $10,000 and injure no-one except the traumatic effect on the bank tellers and if you get caught you'll get about ten years in prison, on the other hand, defraud hundreds or even thousands of people, wreck their lives, undermine their entire financial future, many of them old people who have no capability to restore their finances, all by non-compliance wth the Securities Act and you get 12 months home detention, (probably in your multi-million dollar mansion sea-side paradise owned by your family trust of course), despite the enormous carnage you've caused, go figure ?
Settle down Enumerate, I'm not suggesting AH has one of these, but plenty of other finance company directors do !!
I
ts high time the Judiciary woke up and treated white collar crime AS REAL CRIME !!

[minimoke]

Does the public interest need defending from Allan and Jean Hubbards manual accounting system?

Perhaps yes. The Stat Man has already come out and said the standard of record keeping is not what was expected from entities of that sizer and complexity.

is Allan Hubbard investing the money so recklessly that by showing an 800% yield those Aorangi investors are in perilous danger of getting too rich too fast?

Not much fear of that if he quadrupled their money over 34 years. So the public interest question might be, given their money could have been quadrupled by sticking it in the bank on six month terms in under 18 years, what was AH doing with the cash for the remaining 16 years?

[minimoke]

In case you missed it earlier in the debate here's a comment posted on interest.co.nz .... would Richards parents be classed as sophisticated or whatever?

Winner 69 we also know (from AH's own lips) that there are at least 60 investors in precarious situations and at least one widow who was inexperienced as she allowed other financial managers to loose her money. Out of ~400 investors this is a pretty high percentage. It is not just one aggrieved investor!!.

[Enumerate]

Perhaps yes. The Stat Man has already come out and said the standard of record keeping is not what was expected from entities of that sizer and complexity.

Here the Statutory Manager exceeds his brief. Manual systems are not against the law or regulation.

Can you defend a Statutory Manager who effectively undermines confidence in a business, under their direct management? Their powers are of an investigative nature. If they mismanage or compromise a business under their management I would suggest there is a case to answer for damages.

Not much fear of that if he quadrupled their money over 34 years. So the public interest question might be, given their money could have been quadrupled by sticking it in the bank on six month terms in under 18 years, what was AH doing with the cash for the remaining 16 years?

You assert the returns were poor - but you assume there were no draw downs or payments. It is widely reported that there were investors (maybe the majority) that relied on the income from the fund. So, again, you are treating Allan Hubbards case with the most unfair and unwarranted of assumptions.

Fact of the matter is if you benchmark Aorangi against Hanover ... the choice is obvious where most people would prefer to invest.

[winner69]

Like your sign off Emunerate ..... best to treat all comments as speculation eh

[Beagle]

I simply cannot resist a little objective analysis on the power of compounding inflation and interest, contained therein is a none to subtle dig at New Zealand Oil and Gas.

Way back in 1980 when I started my first job in my accounting career, I'll never forget it, I dropped a file on one of the partners desk's and couldn't help but notice a note written from a conversation he'd had with his stockbroker. It read BUY New Zealand Oil and Gas, current price $1.40.

Now for those who may not know, I believe NZOG have paid only about 3 dividends in all that time since 1980 and then only recently so ignoring those minor dividends for a minute, lets have a look at how that 1980 $1.40 stacks up against 2010 money.

From the Reserve Bank Inflation calculator we can see that all else being equal that $1.40 should now be $6.26 and inflation has averaged 5.1% per annum over that time.
http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/0135595.html

Now suppose it is reasonable for this relativly high risk capital to expect say a 5% real return over and above the inflation rate, thus we expect a return of 10.1% per annum over that 30 year period. Using Microsoft money savings programme I calculate that the $1.40 should now be worth $25.10 today or about 18 times your money.

Of course N.Z.O.G. on striking another dry hole today are around $1.22....I think those numbers say it all about what I think of Aorangi's returns to investors and about NZOG's long term track record.