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  1. #1971
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    By Cully
    Seems the boom and bust cycle has been getting more frequent. Investment scams though are going on all the time regardless of these cycles. My question is, why are investors not learning about either of these things? A while ago I would have said investor education is lacking - it still is, this stuff should be taught in primary schools - but actually there is loads of information out there. I'm sorry if this seems off point but to me this is very relevant to the Hubbard situation - don't have blind faith in anyone, get a prospectus, find out what you're investing in, if the answers aren't there or they don't seem credible be damn suspicious.

    Oh no - they're way worse than Enumerate! The only reason to bother is to get a handle on the level of ignorance out there - including among so-called investor advocate groups like EUFA. Drives you (well, me) insane but makes you realise that rational debate on this is not possible with the cultists. Probably nothing you didn't already know. Unquote....

    Hell Cully !!!
    have you been reading the draft to my book !!! ??
    I,m with you man
    cheers & beers BB

  2. #1972
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Boy View Post
    By Cully
    have you been reading the draft to my book !!! ??
    I,m with you man
    cheers & beers BB
    Well no but sounds like I might like it, let me know when it's published! Cheers to you too, and as you mention it I am enjoying a beer right now, hope you are too.

  3. #1973
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    Yes I have read it. I have also read that they got an independent person involved in HMF. This is what is said in the report
    "HMF has been described to us by an independent fund manager as having:
    • an investment profile that is not consistent with what we understand would be appropriate for a
    typical investor in HMF;
    • a high risk profile;
    • a number of small holdings that add no value to HMF;
    • investments in private equity funds, second tier companies and “penny dreadfuls”;
    • very few blue chip shares; and
    • many illiquid investments."
    Minimoke I havent read the report and dont intend to but this statement seems irrelevant and spurious. People should judge for themselves whether they consider an investment is appropriate for themselves. The implication is that a lot of AH investors were old people therefore they shouldnt put their money into dairy farms, private equity? I dont think that govt officials should be deciding for us what is or isnt an appropriate investment.

    I have no position or opinion on AH but the whole saga has set a dangerous precedent where a company can be seized by govt officials. This can only be mitigated by serious evidence of fraud by AH that was held before they chose to take action. Hopefully the actions will be justified.

    Btw if enumerate is white hot with anger over how AH is being treated i will be just as aggrieved if there is a real loss here and govt officials will be putting their hands in my pocket to bail out investors who voluntarily handed their money over to AH.

  4. #1974
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamdrew View Post
    ...I'm keen to know ppls opinions of how this sorry saga is going to play out over the next three days, as the end game approaches.
    I believe there will be a deal, announced Monday.

    I expect that it will be complex and involve all three elements of the restructure:

    1) Sale of "Bad Bank" assets;
    2) Sale of elements of the the equity asset portfolio (Dairy (primary), Scales and Helicopters); and
    3) Infusion of new equity into the "Good Bank"

    I hope that no one on the thread was frightened into selling their SCFHAs by the chorus of approbation. I believe that of all SCF stakeholders - SCFHA holders will be smiling the widest. I believe that their capital (to $1 per pref) will be secure.

    I am happy to be known as a "Hubbard cultist". I believe this "cult" does exist. It is the "cult" of making money through rational investment.

    I am deeply outraged by the injustice that Allan Hubbard has had to endure. This sorry saga is not over yet, for him.

    For those on the thread who would have Allan Hubbard endure an injustice so that they may save on their tax dollars - you simply have my contempt.
    Do not consider my postings as investment advice. I am here to share research and to speculate on what might be. The boundary between fact and conjecture might not always be clear - best to treat all comments as speculation.

  5. #1975
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    f you want red-hot anger, try taxpayers' money being used to bail out gross mismanagement.
    Amen to that !

  6. #1976
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    I'd much sooner not be working to create taxes which will eventually pay deluded people in Timaru and Waimate as well farmers who are operating unsustainable business models.

    And that's the rub. This good ole boy network, where business appears to have been done on a nod and wink has now, after creating the mother of all local bubbles (rural land prices) come unstuck.

    Unpalatable as it may be for all of us, a revaluation is long overdue.

  7. #1977
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post
    And that's the rub. This good ole boy network, where business appears to have been done on a nod and wink has now, after creating the mother of all local bubbles (rural land prices) come unstuck.

    Unpalatable as it may be for all of us, a revaluation is long overdue.
    A ponzi scheme - keep buying and pushing up dairy farm prices using other people's money.

    The music has stopped.

  8. #1978
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post
    And that's the rub. This good ole boy network, where business appears to have been done on a nod and wink has now, after creating the mother of all local bubbles (rural land prices) come unstuck.

    Unpalatable as it may be for all of us, a revaluation is long overdue.
    I was listening to Bill English last Thursday at the FMG AGM. The question to him I forgot. The answer from Bill I will never forget. "Anyone who pays $800 a sheep stock unit for land has payed too much and cannot be profitable." Obviously the Govt view is the farming land price bubble has to burst. I do not know the implications for SCF.

  9. #1979
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enumerate View Post
    For those on the thread who would have Allan Hubbard endure an injustice so that they may save on their tax dollars - you simply have my contempt.
    Injustice? Try injustice to the thousands of investors who AH deceived - taking their money using inaccurate and dressed up accounts to buy dairy farms etc.

    That bright sphere in the sky in the night - it's not the moon, it's the sun - according to some people.

  10. #1980
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    Quote Originally Posted by drew View Post
    Minimoke I havent read the report and dont intend to but this statement seems irrelevant and spurious. People should judge for themselves whether they consider an investment is appropriate for themselves. The implication is that a lot of AH investors were old people therefore they shouldnt put their money into dairy farms, private equity? I dont think that govt officials should be deciding for us what is or isnt an appropriate investment.
    Drew, might I suggest you read the Report. Its easy reading, not complex but does give background to the essence of this thread. It would help to be just a wee bit informed.

    It was originally argued by AH supporters that his investors were sophisticated investors - time and information has shown this is not the case. AH's investors (and anyone are quite free to invest in Dairy farms private equity or whatever - as long as they know that is where there money is going. Investors in Aorangi and HWM appear not to have had that knowledge.


    The AH Stat Man is by no means a dangerous precedent - it is however extremely rare. There are clearly issues around bringing in the Stat Man. Time will tell if that decision was warranted. What does remain is wether there will be consistency in approach in the future - which begs the question why others weren't brought under Stat Man during the GFC. But thats water under the bridge now. Theres enough to mull over with AH's recent activites.

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