South Canterbury Finance Limited

[Balance]

Balance, I am guessing you are into the gin ... because you have missed the point of both my posts.

You are such a joker, Enumerate.

Thanks for the laughs this week. You are the best.

Delusions they may be but you make them grand!

[minimoke]

Mini, you cannot be serious ... you reckon the former SCF auditor has been "done".

I have contempt for the hypocrisy of singling out the auditor of SCF when a total of $8.5billion has evaporated across the finance sector with not a word from any auditor or professional accounting society when it mattered. SCF is an honest business - unlike the vast majority of other finance companies on the list. Where is the approbation for the legions of accounting professionals who failed to point out the irregularities and the failures in this sorry list of failures?

Contemptible, spineless hypocrites.

No - I don't think the SCF auditors were "done" but there was at least some recognition from their peers that had done wrong. Why the accounting society has "done all the other auditors and accounts I don't know - best ask them that. I'd imagine their response would be that there are regulations in place to alert investors and provide standards under which companies must report information. If the companies did that , then its hardly the Accounting Society fault.

And you reckon SCF is an "honest" business. If honesty means creating a maze of related party loans and not reporting the details is honest then so be it. If relying on a govt guarantee to suck in more investor funds is honest your world is different from mine. If Sandy Myers announcements were honest then we can rely on biographical works as the final word. If being run by a guy who has all his books kept kosher is honest - well what can I say

(if you want a list of company failures you don't need to head off to sharkpatrol. Check out my Divestor thread on this forum - its all there!

[Enumerate]

Mini, if we had massive collapse of civil works of the order of all the buildings in Wellington, say ... I would imagine the Civil Engineers associated with designing, building and regulating would be censured by their relevant professional society.

Not so with accounting ... the regulators had nodded off, the auditors saw nothing wrong, the Finance Directors were looking the other way, the staff accountants simply were doing what they were told ...

Does it strike you as odd that every dodgy finance company executive is dealt with in full respect of their rights in the judicial process. Investigations are not revealed, blow by blow, in press releases. Mr Hubbard has been singled out for special treatment. If charges cannot be laid ... then the systematic destruction of his reputation, in the full public area, abusing the power of Statutory Management to conduct "fishing expeditions" looking for faults or irregularities, seems to be the modus operendi.

Schadenfreude is an ugly characteristic of human nature. The financial community has its own brand of this regrettable defect of character. What is even more sinister is the evil nature of the orchestrated litany of lies against Mr Hubbard - because here is an abuse of the powers of government.

[minimoke]

Does it strike you as odd that every dodgy finance company executive is dealt with in full respect of their rights in the judicial process.

The short answer is no. If you look at the Kiwisaver thread you'll see that it is beyond my comprehension why finance companies in the guise of Kiwisaver providers should get their hands on $1,000 per NZ tax payer for free. No effort at all required on their part but the govt was more than happy to throw them that bone.

For some reason I am quite unable to comprehend how/why the finance sector seems totally immune to the things we in the non-finance world are subject to.

Lets face it - there are two types of Special People in NZ and those in the finance sector are one of them.

[Balance]

There's no orchestrated litany of lies against Allan Hubbard -just an orchestrated litany of related party transactions and bad lending decisions by Allan Hubbard, followed by a juggling act of shuffling assets around the place.

Here's the Securities Commission version of events to come :

SCOM
03/12/2010 18:00
SECCOM

REL: 1800 HRS Securities Commission

SECCOM: SCOM: Releases information on finance company investigations

3 December 2010

Commission releases information on finance company investigations

The Securities Commission today released information about the status of its
investigations into 50 failed finance companies.

It has completed 26 finance company investigations and is continuing with 24.

Criminal charges have been laid against 35 directors or officers of 14
finance companies. The charges have been laid by the Commission or,
following referral by the Commission, by the National Enforcement Unit of the
Companies Office. Three directors have been convicted. The other cases are
still before the courts.

In most of the cases, civil proceedings have also been commenced by the
Commission.

In carrying out its investigations the Commission works closely with the
National Enforcement Unit of the Companies Office and the Serious Fraud
Office and has referred 10 finance company cases to them. In one other case
the Commission accepted an enforceable undertaking from company directors.

"The Commission has worked extremely hard to ensure all failed finance
companies are being thoroughly investigated. The collapse of almost the
entire finance company sector over a very short time period has meant that
the Commission has had to deploy its limited resources effectively in
deciding which cases to investigate first," said Commission Chairman Jane
Diplock.

"Like other regulators in New Zealand and around the world, we generally
don't comment on the progress of our investigations. This is because of the
risk of causing unjustified damage to the reputation of the businesses and
people we are investigating before we are sure that the grounds for our
concern were justified by the evidence we have established. We must also take
care that we don't prejudice the fair and effective trial of a person who is
eventually charged by releasing too much information.

"On the other hand, we want to keep the public - and particularly investors -
informed about our finance company work. From time to time we release
additional information when we believe it is in the public interest to do so.

"Investigations take time, and it's important the public understands what is
involved in our investigations, including how and when the Commission decides
to investigate, the enforcement powers we have, and why, in most cases, we
don't comment publicly about investigations underway or complaints received."

The information released highlights the Commission's work to date, the
companies being investigated, the status investigations and the behaviour or
act that triggered the Commission's involvement. It is published on the
Commission's website at www.seccom.govt.nz

ENDS

[Enumerate]

Balance - the date of your press release is 03/12/2010. $8.5billion has gone west ... surely even you can see that some diligence in 2006 could have prevented the heavy workload of 2010.

[Balance]

Balance - the date of your press release is 03/12/2010. $8.5billion has gone west ... surely even you can see that some diligence in 2006 could have prevented the heavy workload of 2010.

The past is past - nothing can be done. Everyone would agree that it was an absolute disgrace that the regulatory bodies and the Labor government sat on their hands and did nothing.

Thank goodness they moved on Allan Hubbard in time however. Can't have it both ways - blame the past for inaction and then, blame the present for proactive preemptive action.

BTW, where did you get the $8.5 billion from? Check your numbers and you will find the real losses are significantly less than that.

[Balance]

A very bad attitude. Something must be done so that this never happens again. Strong capital markets have strong regulations and oversight. Over time, this will grow the capital markets. NZ has these scandals every business cycle. Prosecution the guilty after each event serves very little purpose as the damage is already done. Is it any wonder then that our capital markets are fading?

Something must be done!

Read my post carefully.

"Thank goodness they moved on Allan Hubbard in time however. Can't have it both ways - blame the past for inaction and then, blame the present for proactive preemptive action."

The horse had bolted with the other finance companies when the Securities Commission and other regulatory bodies sat back, drew big salaries and did nothing.

The super regulator now takes over for the future - that is a good thing.

As to 'this never happens again' - NOT in 100 years, matey. Look at US - Madoff? Worldcom? Lehman? etc.

[Beagle]

Well I had a good laugh yesterday when I caught up on this thread. Nothing much has changed and I really would have thought you'd both have something better, (more profitable), to do with your time, but its still amusing to see Balance and Enumerate slugging it out. I'm definitly still in your camp Balance and agree with much of what you've said.

My position hasn't changed, AH is sick and silly old dellusional fool who had no idea how to run his business when the GFC came along and neither for that matter did Lachie Mcleod and they grossly mismanaged the business into the groud with all the foresight and perception of two blind drunks. I am really looking forward to the principals of natural justice playing out against these two and the other directors of SCF, not to forget Sandy Maier's role, "oh yes we're breaking even", (blatant fraud so he could keep the company going to collect his salary package). I hope they all get prosecuted and I hope investors in SCF preference shares who have sufferred massive losses sue them personally.

It'll take a whole new generation of investors before the inevitable upswing in finance companies yet again. Hopefully long before then the Judiciary will have run out of wet bus tickets, the Securities Laws will have been re-written and there will be serious terms of inprisionment appropriate for the mass devistation these finance company directors have inflicted.

[Enumerate]

I am really looking forward to the principals of natural justice playing out against these two and the other directors of SCF

So, clearly, you have no idea what "natural justice" is let alone what a principle is ...

... not to forget Sandy Maier's role, "oh yes we're breaking even", (blatant fraud so he could keep the company going to collect his salary package). I hope they all get prosecuted and I hope investors in SCF preference shares who have sufferred massive losses sue them personally.

Again, clearly, you do not know what Maier was attempting to do nor what he achieved. Instead, you assert that he was acting with criminal intent (to defraud). You really should be more careful about making unsubstantiated, actionable, statements.

I am not surprised that you and Balance see "eye to eye" on this matter. I am simply grateful that you do not agree with me (otherwise I'd have to carefully check my premises).