South Canterbury Finance Limited

[minimoke]

I fear the only thing you do read on the matter is from the tabloid business press. If you need to understand why Australia is better place to do business try comparing the NBR with TheAustralian.

I think, Enumerate you'll see a read a little more widely than your preferred sources. Have a look at my post above and see which which company directors got pinged today.

Oh - and I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you on your view about Australia. I've been pretty consistent in my view that NZ is akin to the wild wild west.

[minimoke]

It looks like todays arrest is Capital and Merchant directors.
This will disappoint the lynch mob.

They are being done for related party lending not a ponzi. I wonder who else on the list has been doing related party lending?

[Enumerate]

I wonder who else on the list has been doing related party lending?

Related party lending is not illegal. Non-disclosure of related party loans is the issue.

[minimoke]

Related party lending is not illegal. Non-disclosure of related party loans is the issue.

Given we have not seen the last set of SCF accounts are you confident that all related part loans have been disclosed?

Given the shifting of money bu AH in Aorangi and HMF are you confident these were properly disclosed? We now know, by way, of example, that $24m went from Aorangi into AH's Te Tua Charitable trust and $59m into farming activities associated with AH. We also know that investors in Aorangi thought their money was going into secured first mortgages and we know that recorded keeping was not to the level expected of a portfolio of that size.

I am not sure you are correct to infer that a Receivers report is tittle tattle - . Personally I'd put more weight into the credibility of a report written by Receivers than a book written by an author who seems to have had a pretty undistinguished career. If asked to make a call between the writings of a Timaru accounting or auditing firm and Virginia I do admit that I would find that difficult.

[Balance]

Hear the clock ticking in the background - 'tick, tick ...tick ...tick .....'

[Enumerate]

Given we have not seen the last set of SCF accounts are you confident that all related part loans have been disclosed?

I am confident based on the fact that SCF was managed by Maier and audited by E&Y.

Given the shifting of money bu AH in Aorangi and HMF are you confident these were properly disclosed? We now know, by way, of example, that $24m went from Aorangi into AH's Te Tua Charitable trust and $59m into farming activities associated with AH. We also know that investors in Aorangi thought their money was going into secured first mortgages and we know that recorded keeping was not to the level expected of a portfolio of that size.

I have never studied Aorangi nor HMF ... my sole interest is SCF.

I am not sure you are correct to infer that a Receivers report is tittle tattle - . Personally I'd put more weight into the credibility of a report written by Receivers than a book written by an author who seems to have had a pretty undistinguished career. If asked to make a call between the writings of a Timaru accounting or auditing firm and Virginia I do admit that I would find that difficult.

If you strip away the boilerplate from the first SCF Receivers report ... you are left with a management account summary from August .... and tittle tattle.

[minimoke]

I have never studied Aorangi nor HMF ... my sole interest is SCF.

Those are entities outside this thread but I guess we keep raising them due to the AH connection. As you are into a bit of light reading I'd encourage you to take at least a passing glance at these entities - though I'm surprised mention hasn't been made of them in the "book"
I profess to not having a depth of knowledge around the requirements of receivers and liquidators to report. Someone here can no doubt shed some light. I do however anticipate that since they are likely to be members of the Accounting Association and their actions covered by some statute or other I'd expect their standard or required reporting to be higher than "tittle tattle. As always I stand to be corrected.

[Enumerate]

Hear the clock ticking in the background - 'tick, tick ...tick ...tick .....'

Ask not for whom the clock ticks, it ticks for thee ...

[Enumerate]

I wonder if there will be any consequences for Mr Feeley's absurd grandstanding - leading to further abuse of Mr Hubbard's reputation on this thread as one consequence.

Beware of crusading civil servants with too much power granted in legislation and too few constraints such as probity in office or respect for Ministerial dignity.

Why cannot Commerce or the Securities Commission explain why their lack of enforcement of perfectly good securities legislation and regulation somehow justifies the current violation of Mr Hubbard's right to "due process"?

[minimoke]

I wonder if there will be any consequences for Mr Feeley's absurd grandstanding - leading to further abuse of Mr Hubbard's reputation on this thread as one consequence.

Beware of crusading civil servants with too much power granted in legislation and too few constraints such as probity in office or respect for Ministerial dignity.

Why cannot Commerce or the Securities Commission explain why their lack of enforcement of perfectly good securities legislation and regulation somehow justifies the current violation of Mr Hubbard's right to "due process"?

Enumerate, Feely wasn't grandstanding - he was answering questions and providing information in front of a select committee. You talk about due process - well Select Committees are a part of that overall due process. It was the media (and bloggers ) who then too his comments and started the tittle tattle. A bit of background checking on his comments by the media would have put AH out of the frame and put B'on in h the frame.

You suggest we should beware crusading civil servants - and I'm inclined to agree. However if we look at investors in SCF, Hanover, Allied, Aorangi and now B'On its quite clear that no matter how much legislation and regulation is in place you cannot protect the stupid and greedy from themselves