South Canterbury Finance Limited

[Balance]

Heres an insightful post!

We share the same view of Chris Lee and his antics.

I am hoping that a class action will also surface the role that Forsyth Barr played as well in the collapse of South Canterbury Finance. Forsyth Barr eagerly and furiously raised hundreds of millions of dollars for SCF when SCF obtained the Crown guarantee, imo prolonging and extending the mess that SCF was already in at that stage. It was akin to giving heroin to a cocaine addict.

The Feltex and Credit Sails failures showed that Forsyth Barr was all about milking fees with little regard for the appropriateness of risks/investments to investors.

[Balance]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=10459887

Investment analyst and broker Chris Lee also rates finance companies on his website, but says he likes to focus on those good companies, those people should invest in, rather than the bad.

"You've got the dual emotions - what is fair and what will cause queues outside the banks," says Lee.

"There are some companies that are unarguably good - Marac, Strategic, St Laurence, South Canterbury and UDC.

"They are not in the argument and it wouldn't be a bad thing for people to contrast those with Nathans, which was clearly a rubbish company and had been identified - certainly by anyone who does analysis - as a rubbish company a long time ago."

Lee says he correctly identified five of the past six failures as high-risk investments.

"It is possible for an experienced person to get hold of information that allows them to differentiate between the best and the worst.

"None of the As and Bs that we've got have had any trouble."

Chris Lee has of course deleted any reference to his inhouse finance company ratings system.

[minimoke]

I don,t have the energy or enthusiasm to pursue the likes of Chris Lee after digging people out of the bog during the GFC.

All I can say is anyone thinking of going to him with the idea this action will produce results should be put against a wall and shot. We could do with raising the average IQ of the NZ investor and all I can hope for is that these people are past breeding age.

And if investors think I am a bit harsh just wait til the 12 of December. Out of the total mess that SCF was 5 guilty verdicts against Sullicvan is the very best the SFO could do. Seriously - Chris Lee thinks he can do better. For f&8cks sake, give me a break!

Blood pressure rising - time to go!

[minimoke]

Right, my foo foo valve has just burst. 12 months home D and 400 hours community work Is all sullivan gets for being guilty on 5 charges (guilt he incidentally doesnt accept) including making false statements, deceptive conduct and recording a fictitious transaction.

The tax payer had been shafted and once again white collar crime punishment goes soft.

I Off To Become A Hindu So that in my next life ill study law and become a judge. In sullivans next life he would get his just desserts.

[winner69]

Had to laugh that as there was no loss to investors it might have mitigated the crime.


Quote from stuff -The fact that there was no loss to investors occurred only because of the Crown's retail deposit guarantee scheme, which was "purely fortuituous from Mr Sullivan's perspective".

Maybe all taxpayers should sue to recover the billion or whatever.

[minimoke]

Maybe all taxpayers should sue to recover the billion or whatever.

They will be behind Mr Lee in the queue

[Beagle]

We share the same view of Chris Lee and his antics.

I am hoping that a class action will also surface the role that Forsyth Barr played as well in the collapse of South Canterbury Finance. Forsyth Barr eagerly and furiously raised hundreds of millions of dollars for SCF when SCF obtained the Crown guarantee, imo prolonging and extending the mess that SCF was already in at that stage. It was akin to giving heroin to a cocaine addict.

The Feltex and Credit Sails failures showed that Forsyth Barr was all about milking fees with little regard for the appropriateness of risks/investments to investors.

I used too use Forsyth Barr as my broker. For the reasons you've mentioned and others I wont deal with them ever again. The sentence handed down to Mr Sullivan is a sad indictment on the fact that the N.Z. Judiciary simply don't seem to take white collar crime seriously.

[percy]

I used too use Forsyth Barr as my broker. For the reasons you've mentioned and others I wont deal with them ever again. The sentence handed down to Mr Sullivan is a sad indictment on the fact that the N.Z. Judiciary simply don't seem to take white collar crime seriously.

I saw Mr Hubbard and Mr Sullivan in action a good few years ago at a Scales agm.
I had read the annual report a few weeks before hand.It was a disgrace.I rang director H Rolleston and asked him a number of things.Most of his answers were.That should not have been report like that,or that should not have been included in the report.
At the agm another shareholder asked the same questions.Hubbard and Sullivan looked down their stuck up noses,and asked "what page was that on","what was you question again" etc. The arrogant old tossers,did their best to belittle the questioner.
So Roger I agree with you.

[minimoke]

Looks like Crown Asset Management might be looking at some civil action so may not be over yet.

And Mr Lee, your a plonker. - I don't mind contributing towards the $100,000 to lock up Sullivan. Its not about the money. Its about deterring other parasites who will suck the blood out of those who trust and rely on the information handed out by the directors and executives of companies they part own.

[Beagle]

I think its worth remembering that Financial advisors should be able to :-
- Rely on the veracity of financial statements as signed off by directors
- Rely on big name accountancy practices doing a thoroughly professional job in their audits so that when giving their opinion that the financial statements show a true and fair view...that they being one of the very few parties able to actually test the veracity of said financial statements would do a thorough job of their audit
- Expect that Trustees being another party who are privy to significant amounts of information that are not available to the public would execute their duties in a careful, diligent and prudent manner
- Expect that the Crown would have engaged special forensic accountants to do really thorough due diligence on the operations of entities before admission to the Crown guarantee scheme
- Expect that the CEO of an organisation that had been audited, vetted and approved wouldn't give blatantly and grossly misleading statements about the prospects of said organisation, (such statements must surely have been approved for release by the board).
Expect big name share brokers to act in a professional manner in the best interest of their clients.

Financial advisors are simply not remunerated enough, nor do they have the time and resources to independently and thoroughly audit each organisation themselves, nor should investors have the right to expect that they would. Financial advisors are but one link in the chain and if other links are fundamentally weak, corrupt, inept or asleep at the wheel the chain will break and blame should be ascribed where it belongs, not where its simply expeditious to do so.

On the other hand you should expect financial advisors to recommend a well diversified and carefully tailored portfolio of investments that are appropriate for the specific risk tolerance and investment profile of the client concerned. In cases where Financial advisors haven't discharged their duties with a reasonable level of care or have been negligent and it can be proved that contributed to a clients losses this could be an actionable matter. That said, expending, tens and in some cases hundreds of thousands of dollars on litigation needs to be carefully considered on a risk - potential reward basis remembering that its quite possible you'll end up wearing the other parties legal costs too.

This is not a defence of Chris Lee per se, just giving a different perspective to this debate.