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  1. #11
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    quote:Originally posted by Nigel

    They have had some poor investments but my point is that their current holdings are performing well, and this value is not shown in the current shareprice.
    Are you saying that the discount has got even bigger, or that the underlying shares that they invest in are undervalued.

    I have considered investing - though of doing a play on the discount but if the discount never goes away, there is no play. Note: When I bought into WINZ it was at about a 10% discount. Not sure what it is now but it closed up jsut after my purchase (I consider this luck rather than planning but has made me think).
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  2. #12
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    quote:Originally posted by Nigel

    They have had some poor investments but my point is that their current holdings are performing well, and this value is not shown in the current shareprice. Sure, they may (and probably will) make some poor choices in the future, but the immediate future look positive.
    Accidents waiting to happen - that's how I would describe some of KFL's investments and investment strategy. TUA, RBD, WHS, BGR, KID, POD etc make for a parade of uglies invested in by KFL. What else lurks in the portfolio? That's why the share will always trade at a discount.

  3. #13
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    Back in December, at the start of this thread:
    Ordinary Shares trading at 95 cents
    NAV per ordinary share = 134.89 cents

    eg shares trading at a 29.6% discount to NAV,

    NAV as at 15 March = 146.64 cents
    Ordinary shares trading at 108 cents yesterday

    eg shares trading at 26% discount but not including any of the WAM (or recent PPL etc) action

    The shareprice has accelerated recently to reflect the earlier value that was there, but I think it has some steam in it yet.

    Disc: Hold KFL



  4. #14
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    quote:Originally posted by sniper

    Accidents waiting to happen - that's how I would describe some of KFL's investments and investment strategy. TUA, RBD, WHS, BGR, KID, POD etc make for a parade of uglies invested in by KFL. What else lurks in the portfolio? That's why the share will always trade at a discount.
    KFL was at the end of February invested in CTL, CVT, FRE, MFT, MHI, NZX, PPL, RYM, SOE, WAM according to the Fisher Funds Newsletter.

    So now is your chance to prove that you are more than a backward looking whinger and tell us which of these are the accidents waiting to happen and why.
    om mani peme hum

  5. #15
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    quote:Originally posted by Paper Tiger

    quote:Originally posted by sniper

    Accidents waiting to happen - that's how I would describe some of KFL's investments and investment strategy. TUA, RBD, WHS, BGR, KID, POD etc make for a parade of uglies invested in by KFL. What else lurks in the portfolio? That's why the share will always trade at a discount.
    KFL was at the end of February invested in CTL, CVT, FRE, MFT, MHI, NZX, PPL, RYM, SOE, WAM according to the Fisher Funds Newsletter.

    So now is your chance to prove that you are more than a backward looking whinger and tell us which of these are the accidents waiting to happen and why.
    Could be NZX, could be CTL, could be SOE, could be FRE. History says that there's a strong likelihood that one or more will blow up in the next 12 months.

    Would you invest in a company when it has that kind of track record? [^]

  6. #16
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    quote:Originally posted by sniper

    Could be NZX, could be CTL, could be SOE, could be FRE. History says that there's a strong likelihood that one or more will blow up in the next 12 months.

    Would you invest in a company when it has that kind of track record? [^]
    Thank you for your reply.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but what you seem to be saying is that you can not predict what the future holds and that given a reasonably diversified portfolio that one or more of its constituents will probably underperform, possibly drastically.
    Would it surprise you to learn that this is normal and that even I have not made a profit on everything I have bought?

    As for the track record for KFL, it appears to have outperformed the NZX50 since listing despite the NZX50 for 3/4 of that time being unrealistic in that it included the gross dividend income.

    You appear to be critising KFL for not being perfect, that is dangerous territory to venture into to.

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  7. #17
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    Sorry have I missed something, track record is very sound, when did they last blow up on a stock?

    I remember my father investing in Carmel Fishers Fund when she was at Prudential, that blew up and she flew the roost very quickly but for a number of years she had good performance. I think the stock that was her ruin was Regal Salmon.

  8. #18
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    Sniper, you mentioned NZX, FRE, SOE and CTL as possible big losers. I don't follow FRE or NZX, but I am very happy for KFL to be holding CTL and SOE. SOE has gone from 90 cents to 1.10/1.20 in the last month or so and will benefit from a falling dollar. CTL is also a big exporter, growing in several new markets, and has potential for significant upside. I agree that there is an inherent risk in growth stocks but that is part of investing. KFL manage this risk through diversification, and you will see that their largest holdings are in more stable stocks such as WAM, RYM and PPL.


  9. #19
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    quote:Originally posted by Anna Naum

    Sorry have I missed something, track record is very sound, when did they last blow up on a stock?

    I remember my father investing in Carmel Fishers Fund when she was at Prudential, that blew up and she flew the roost very quickly but for a number of years she had good performance. I think the stock that was her ruin was Regal Salmon.
    Ah ....Prudential. And it wasn't just Regal Salmon.

    109% return in the first year on $10m then ...............blow-up on $120m.

    Buy a small/mid cap illiquid stock and keep buying. Performance built on buying more and more of an ever illiquid stock and then, blow-up time. TUA is the best example of it.

  10. #20
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    quote:Originally posted by Paper Tiger
    As for the track record for KFL, it appears to have outperformed the NZX50 since listing despite the NZX50 for 3/4 of that time being unrealistic in that it included the gross dividend income.
    Not sure if it will make a difference but shouldn't you compare it to the small companies index, or atleast the midcap index.

    Small and mid cap is where it invests and where a lot of small investors who buy unit trusts dont invest.

    Or maybe a comparison with the Midnz index fund which I guess is its passive competitor. I was debating between these two when I decided to buy TPW instead. Just annoyed i didn't pick up POT at the same time.
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