KFL - discount to diluted NAV

[777]

Twice I stated it goes in the dividends section. I couldn't be clearer than that.

[alokdhir]

Twice I stated put it goes in the dividends section. I couldn't be clearer than that.

Ok...Thanks for telling me again...lol

Any ideas about how to use excess imputation credits ?

[SPC]

Yes you declare the income as standard div's. Not pie.
You seemed determined to earn more un/undertaxed income so you can burn through some Imputation credits. But all taxable income must be declared and with the risk of that comes changes in tax legislation. I earn nearly twice as much as 'person 1' in pie income and I don't declare a cent of it. My tax rate is 10.5% and I enjoy all the benefits of looking 'poor' 😆.
Mate use your brains...

[dabsman]

Yes you declare the income as standard div's. Not pie.
You seemed determined to earn more un/undertaxed income so you can burn through some Imputation credits. But all taxable income must be declared and with the risk of that comes changes in tax legislation. I earn nearly twice as much as 'person 1' in pie income and I don't declare a cent of it. My tax rate is 10.5% and I enjoy all the benefits of looking 'poor' .
Mate use your brains...

One of the main resons I have gone into these funds. Especially with non-deductability of interest on rental properties. Last thing I need is trying to minimise trust income now its 39% tax and being unable to disburse to personal income as all the rent is hitting that now as well

[justakiwi]

This confuses me. I too was under the impression that one is not required to declare PIE income, but could do so to claim imputation credits if it would be advantageous. But IRD apparently does not agree:

From their website:

If you received income from a Kiwisaver provider or other portfolio investment entity (PIE), or any of the above income types, you need to include this in your return.

So if they are correct, how do you get away with never declaring it?

Yes you declare the income as standard div's. Not pie.
You seemed determined to earn more un/undertaxed income so you can burn through some Imputation credits. But all taxable income must be declared and with the risk of that comes changes in tax legislation. I earn nearly twice as much as 'person 1' in pie income and I don't declare a cent of it. My tax rate is 10.5% and I enjoy all the benefits of looking 'poor' .
Mate use your brains...

[alokdhir]

This confuses me. I too was under the impression that one is not required to declare PIE income, but could do so to claim imputation credits if it would be advantageous. But IRD apparently does not agree:

From their website:

If you received income from a Kiwisaver provider or other portfolio investment entity (PIE), or any of the above income types, you need to include this in your return.

So if they are correct, how do you get away with never declaring it?

Kiwi saver are MRP ...ie multi rate PIEs ...they now automatically provide info to IRD for PIR correctness purposes ...if all year correct PIR used then no further action needed and this PIE income is not included in any other taxable income to even influence slab or marginal rate change

BUT KFL type are LISTED PIES ...they have separate rules ...their distributions / dividends / income is already taxed at maximum PIE rate of 28% thus they give beneficiary the choice to include , if suits for imputation credit purposes , or not ...their is no limit to how much u can get from KFL dividends ...U can still choose to not declare it ...so SPC has listed PIES income which he doesn't declare ...nothing wrong ...as he got that income already taxed at maximum FINAL PIE RATE ie 28% ...he has already paid

[justakiwi]

I understand that, but the IRD statement I quoted, implies to me, that all PIE income must be declared. There is no accompanying statement or note that says "excluding listed PIE income."

Kiwi saver are MRP ...ie multi rate PIEs ...they now automatically provide info to IRD for PIR correctness purposes ...if all year correct PIR used then no further action needed and this PIE income is not included in any other taxable income to even influence slab or marginal rate change

BUT KFL type are LISTED PIES ...they have separate rules ...their distributions / dividends / income is already taxed at maximum PIE rate of 28% thus they give beneficiary the choice to include , if suits for imputation credit purposes , or not ...their is no limit to how much u can get from KFL dividends ...U can still choose to not declare it ...so SPC has listed PIES income which he doesn't declare ...nothing wrong ...as he got that income already taxed at maximum FINAL PIE RATE ie 28% ...he has already paid

[alokdhir]

I understand that, but the IRD statement I quoted, implies to me, that all PIE income must be declared. There is no accompanying statement or note that says "excluding listed PIE income."

If u read the dividend statement which we get from KFL ...it clearly says Individual investor can choose to declare and take advantage of imputation credits attached or otherwise .
https://www.ird.govt.nz/roles/portfo...estment-entity

"Paying tax

Listed PIEs do not file periodic returns, annual reconciliations or investor certificates. They are required to continue to file income tax returns.
Listed PIEs cannot pass losses out to investors. They may pay dividends.
Investors can decide whether or not to include the dividend in their income tax assessment."

[justakiwi]

I am agreeing with you. I am just saying IRD does not make this at all clear in the limited information they provide on their website, with regards to PIE income.

If u read the dividend statement which we get from KFL ...it clearly says Individual investor can choose to declare and take advantage of imputation credits attached or otherwise .
https://www.ird.govt.nz/roles/portfo...estment-entity

"Paying tax

Listed PIEs do not file periodic returns, annual reconciliations or investor certificates. They are required to continue to file income tax returns.
Listed PIEs cannot pass losses out to investors. They may pay dividends.
Investors can decide whether or not to include the dividend in their income tax assessment."

[SPC]

Yes I agree with you that some of their wording is confusing. That's where a few hundred or less spent on some tax advice is useful. Theoretically you shouldn't need to but that's life. Actually I think the tax system now is about as efficient as it gets so as long as you play by the rules and get prof advice when you aren't sure.
As per Akldr, Listed Pie investments are legislated to tax taxable distributions at the top companies rate and you walk away fully compliant. Thankyou Dr Sir Michael Cullen (dec). He hated " rich pricks" (sic) but I never took it personally 😉 Just saying..