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  1. #761
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    Yes I was about to say the same myself.
    This is the market at work...one man's trash is another's treasure. I am very comfortable with our transparent and continuously disclosed market doing what it does... offering opportunities to buy and sell. Trademe for shares!.
    Note also that BRM LTD KFL LTD and MLN LTD are individual corporate companies...they only hire stock picking from Fisher funds. They have independent boards and staff. You are welcome to nominate yourself for the board if you feel change is needed!

  2. #762
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    Thanks for your encouragement mates . Big fish eats small fish works well everywhere ...

    Trying to suggest to look after untrained investors ....

    Also who says I cant work with this system or dont like golden opportunities given to me by these funds at the cost of .... Thought fairer market will help expand equity culture in NZ also ...we have only 5% stocks investors compared to 60-80% in other countries ...maybe now I know why so ...lol

  3. #763
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    I think you are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. The listed pie funds and unlisted unit funds invest in approximately the same underlying stocks but they operate in different ways to meet different needs. They do this to suit investor preferences. The unit funds don't suit me and others for reasons of liquidity and pricing opportunity.
    Nothing to do with big fish vs small fish although I do note that barramundi and marlin are both fish and they look like tasty ones to me.
    Last edited by SPC; 08-11-2020 at 03:38 PM. Reason: Spelling

  4. #764
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    Quote Originally Posted by alokdhir View Post
    The most efficient stock market investment for lay or even market savvy investors is NZG which has exactly same composition as our headline index without any caps of maximum 5% like FNZ ...it follows our index fully ...if market up 2% NZG is up 2% . It has fund charges of only 0.2 % compared to KFL 1.5 % plus performance fees of 1.25% almost every alternate year.
    An even cheaper option for the equivalent of NZG might be the Simplicity fund outside of KiwiSaver at 0.10% fund charges (plus $20 pa). Of course you have to put up with Sam Stubbs and his overreaching holier than thou approach (now he's no longer an active manager) and no SKC, ZEL or GNE (from memory). I was briefly with Simplicity KiwiSaver but the sanctimonious walk on water approach became a bit too much.

  5. #765
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    http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-websit...887/334658.pdf

    Interesting disclosure. Looks like the dog is in good company. Carmel Fisher is pretty astute judge of a good opportunity and has been buying up the Barramundi warrants, more than 1.2 million at 13 cents. No prizes for guessing what I have also been doing

  6. #766
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-websit...887/334658.pdf

    Interesting disclosure. Looks like the dog is in good company. Carmel Fisher is pretty astute judge of a good opportunity and has been buying up the Barramundi warrants, more than 1.2 million at 13 cents. No prizes for guessing what I have also been doing
    Very interesting !!
    Last edited by alokdhir; 09-11-2020 at 05:42 PM.

  7. #767
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    Quote Originally Posted by alokdhir View Post
    Think she bought ordinary shares BRM and not warrants .... still maybe same product eventually ...buying at 12% premium to Nav ...very very interesting ...Does she know something which we dont know ...
    Read the whole disclosure especially the price paid on the second page mate. To the best of my knowledge NZX rules requires disclosure of shareholdings on a look through basis, (i.e. as if the warrants have already been exercised). She knows something the dog does. The warrants are good value.

  8. #768
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    [QUOTE=Beagle;855412]Read the whole disclosure especially the price paid on the second page mate. To the best of my knowledge NZX rules requires disclosure of shareholdings on a look through basis, (i.e. as if the warrants have already been exercised). She knows something the dog does. The warrants are good value.[/QUOTE

    Read both pages ...it says on page 1243883 shares acquired on market ...page 1 ...on page 2 gives details of her other interest in the company derivatives which is number of warrants held by her ie 1123144 ...which corresponds to 1 for 4 shares original allotment for her prior holding as mentioned on page 1 ie 4492575 ..

    But how much she paid for BRM shares final amount not mentioned on page 1 ...just says acquired on market 1243883 making new total as 5736458 ...

    CSL ...Vaccine maker is top holding of BRM ...which is already started making covid vaccines !!

  9. #769
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    Yeap...been a busy day...finally got a good look at it and got it. Price disclosure on the shares acquired on market is missing and should have been disclosed. Warrants are as you said, 1:4 based on original holding.

    Quite interesting that she appears to have been paying well north of NTA for over 1.2 million shares on market.
    Last edited by Beagle; 09-11-2020 at 06:30 PM.

  10. #770
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    http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-websit...129/334966.pdf

    I can't help wondering what Carmel Fisher is up to buying BRM shares up large at such a premium to NTA ?

  11. #771
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-websit...129/334966.pdf

    I can't help wondering what Carmel Fisher is up to buying BRM shares up large at such a premium to NTA ?
    The latest NTA I can find is 0.7575 on the 4th November, ASX 200 up over 9% since then.
    Would she have much a much more accurate valuation than us ?

  12. #772
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddagg View Post
    The latest NTA I can find is 0.7575 on the 4th November, ASX 200 up over 9% since then.
    Would she have much a much more accurate valuation than us ?
    How you worked it is how I work it but I would think its highly likely she has built her own model with a spreadsheet of holdings which updates continuously. Something I must get around to doing at some stage seeing as I have "a few" warrants now. Bit harder for us mere mortals because we don't have right up to the minute shareholdings and details of the degree of forward exchange cover if any. All that said I do think she has been paying a material premium so I will await with interest this afternoon's NTA announcement.
    Last edited by Beagle; 12-11-2020 at 10:47 AM.

  13. #773
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    This purchase of warrants by Carmel, Beagle, and others........
    Is it for the expected rise in the value of the warrants?
    Or is it for the conversion of the warrants into shares next Oct?

    If I buy n warrants, doesn't that commit me to paying out $n*0.86 next Oct? In which case, I need to be careful not to over-commit.

  14. #774
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    Most are buying with the intention of exercising the warrants next year, at whatever the exercise price is.

    You can buy warrants between now and then, but you are under no obligation to exercise them until the cut-off date next year. If you decide not to exercise them you can sell your warrants on the market.

    I always set aside the amount I will need to exercise - so that money is there if I decide to go ahead.

    Quote Originally Posted by TideMan View Post
    This purchase of warrants by Carmel, Beagle, and others........
    Is it for the expected rise in the value of the warrants?
    Or is it for the conversion of the warrants into shares next Oct?

    If I buy n warrants, doesn't that commit me to paying out $n*0.86 next Oct? In which case, I need to be careful not to over-commit.

  15. #775
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-websit...129/334966.pdf

    I can't help wondering what Carmel Fisher is up to buying BRM shares up large at such a premium to NTA ?
    http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-websit...133/334967.pdf

    She bought more then 100k MLN shares around 1.22 on 10th Nov ...a day before warrant exercised shares hit the market to bring price down 5%

    Very interesting things she doing in shares of companies she is a director of ....

  16. #776
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    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    Most are buying with the intention of exercising the warrants next year, at whatever the exercise price is.

    You can buy warrants between now and then, but you are under no obligation to exercise them until the cut-off date next year. If you decide not to exercise them you can sell your warrants on the market.

    I always set aside the amount I will need to exercise - so that money is there if I decide to go ahead.
    Thanks I do the same. It is highly likely in my opinion that the warrant exercise price on 29/10/2021 will be 64 cents (70 cents less dividends paid in the next year which I estimate at 6 cents in total).
    With the shares currently at 90 cents and the exercise price likely to be 64 cents, (difference obviously being 26 cents), the warrants would appear to confer quite some value especially when one starts to think about their leverage into an economy recovering from Covid in 2021. I hold plenty of warrants and want more.

  17. #777
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    Mr B what is the long term stratergy for BRM, KFL and MLN. Obviously one cannot always have enough cash to exercise the warrants?
    Do you sell your warrants or some of them. Pretty rapidly(25% increase each year) if one bought all ones warrants these funds would become most of your portfolio.

  18. #778
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    The last warrant exercise for BRM was Nov 2019 and the next isn't until late October 2021 so nearly 2 years between the last two issues so that doesn't present a problem to me as I am headed upwards in my intention to hold these excellent fully managed investments in this group but as you suggest, some people may need to sell shares to afford to exercise their warrants.
    Last edited by Beagle; 18-11-2020 at 11:17 AM.

  19. #779
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    Carmel buying more BRM and MLN today, and here was me thinking of taking some profits....

  20. #780
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    Quote Originally Posted by seadog View Post
    Carmel buying more BRM and MLN today, and here was me thinking of taking some profits....
    In markets every decision will end up in regrets in hindsight as either u sold too early or too late ...as perfect timing never happens ..

    So a very wise man has said .... " Sell and regret is better then not sell and regret " implies when sold early ...atleast u got some profits ...if too late then profits gone ...

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