TRA - Turners Automotive Group [previously TNR - Turners Limited]

[Lawso]

No, Lakeside. I hold St L Ltd capital notes and St L P&F convertible property notes. So what does that mean re DPC exposure?

I have confidence in Kevin and his team. But I wish the St L Group structure wasn't so *#@!%* complicated!

[lakeside]

Well you have no worries STL would have some DPL exposure but not much in the scheme of things and their credit rating is good & getting better. SLPF looks very much off on its own, independant, and it must be a good investment as STL just got 30% of STL or so by excercising rights at $1.15 and they were right in there for the capital raising and they should know.

Any way pasted some of a STL investment statement late 2006 which explains its all simpler now!

SECURITY
The Secured Debenture Stock is constituted by a trust deed and is secured by a fi rst ranking charge over the undertakings
and assets of the Company and the Charging Companies, subject to permitted Prior Charges and statutorily preferred
claims. The total amount secured under Prior Charges which rank in priority to the Secured Debenture Stock must not
exceed 10% of Total Realisable Assets.
The diagram on page 8 sets out the structure of the Company and its subsidiaries. Not all subsidiaries of the Company
are Charging Companies under the terms of the Debenture Trust Deed. Under the Debenture Trust Deed, the Charging
Companies have each guaranteed the Secured Debenture Stock and charged their assets in support of the obligations
of the Company and the other Charging Companies, including the Company’s obligations in respect of the Secured
Debenture Stock. The Non-Charging Companies (which are St Laurence Property & Finance Limited (and its subsidiaries),
St Laurence Capital Limited and the subsidiaries of Direct Property Investments Limited) are not parties
to the Debenture Trust Deed and their assets are not subject to the charge created by the Debenture Trust Deed.
The Company’s shareholding in the Non-Charging Companies is, however, subject to the charge created by the
Debenture Trust Deed.
THE HISTORY
The St Laurence brand has been active in the property investment and fi nance markets since 1995, and is recognised and
trusted by investors as having integrity and vision.
St Laurence Limited (formerly called St Laurence Mortgages Limited) was established in July 1999 as a property-based
fi nance company to invest primarily in a portfolio of secured property loan advances, bank deposits and government
securities. From small beginnings, the Group has grown steadily and prudently and, as a result of that growth and recent
acquisitions, now manages more than $1 billion in assets for over 16,000 investors (as of the date of this investment
statement). St Laurence Limited is a wholly-owned subsidiary of St Laurence Mortgage Holdings Limited.
In early 2006, the directors and management of the Company undertook a detailed review, the objectives of which were
very clear:
• Diversify and strengthen the Company’s asset base and income streams;
• Position the Company for future growth with additional share capital; and
• Simplify the business to make it more easily understood.
As a result of that review, it was proposed that the Company acquire a number of companies from St Laurence Holdings
Limited and one company from St Laurence NSW Pty Limited.
Transparency, openness and a constructive relationship with the Trustee, fi nancial advisers and investors are important to
the Company. As part of the review process, we consulted with the Trustee and key fi nancial advisers and discussed with
them our plans for the Company. We also provided our investors with detailed information on the proposed changes and
invited them to approve these at a special meeting, which they did on 19 September 2006.

THE HISTORY
The St Laurence brand has been active in the property investment and fi nance markets since 1995, and is recognised and
trusted by investors as having integrity and vision.
St Laurence Limited (formerly called St Laurence Mortgages Limited) was established in July 1999 as a property-based
fi nance company to invest primarily in a portfolio of secured property loan advances, bank deposits and government
securities. From small beginnings, the Group has grown steadily and prudently and, as a result of that growth and recent
acq

[lakeside]

But I digress...

[Lawso]

Gee thanks, lakeside. Now I'm more confused than ever.

Adding to the confusion is that at least one product, St L capital notes, are listed on NZDX while at least one other, St L P&F property notes - and maybe others - trade on www.unlisted.[V]

Let's hope that before too long Kevin pulls a lot of stuff together and lists one company on NZX.

Afterthought: Yes, this has got a long way off the point re DPC. Why don't you start a St Laurence thread, lakeside, and put the above onto it?

[Hoop]

Quote from Lawso:

Let's hope that before too long Kevin pulls a lot of stuff together and lists one company on NZX

The financial watchers were amazed when StL group got mixed up with DPC. The only reasons that some commentators have mentioned, is it exposes StL to some niche markets and allows an entry into the NZX. Some commentators thinks that DPC will be sold on or still taken over by other much bigger still unknown company.

Last year it was common knowledge that the Financial Market was in for change. At the moment there too many small niche financial companies which make reasonable good profits and other small companies that compete in the general market that don't make adequate profits in relation to the capital base that they work from. 2007 was mean't to be the year of takeovers and mergers and a shinkage of overall numbers and emergence of more much larger groups, and we are seeing some evidence of it now.

Where does DPC fit in this picture. ( beware.. my Viewpoint)

DPC is small grouping of companies that has NZX listing and my bet is the StL Group sees value in that. Also DPC as a whole is underperforming and if StL can get into the DPC management it may be able to unlock some of that value. As there is a mutual affection between the two I suspect that there could be a highly complicated mix/merger in progress adding value (synergy) from both groups by spinning bits off and forming much bigger company(s), or a big financial group using the DPC brand listed on the NZX. For this to happen there could be some more medium & small companies yet to come on board. As has been mention in the posts by Lakeside, the StL group is a complicated mix of semi independent companies already.

All this is my speculation and could be very wrong.

StL bought into DPC as did DPC into StL group.

[u]My question</u>, the same as other commentators is why on earth would a top performing company of StL Group tanish it's reputation and invest into a small niche company that isn't performing as opposed to others that are doing very well at the moment and must be rated better prospects [?]

As for us shareholders, [B)] I think we have been hijacked, and it has become a big unknown complicated scarery scenerio that we didn't expect or wanted when we bought in, hence the fall in the shareprice. Lets hope all this is resolved reasonable quickly and the poor loyal shareholders will benefit through certainty and be rewarded with the added wealth that StL can inject into DPC.

I pray for patience and not to have the urge to push that big red ejector button.

It would be nice to hear from some other shatchatters views so as to build a compete picture on which possible directions DPC could be heading.

[Hoop]

Quote from Hoop 12/06/2007

...Its share price must again be below its asset backing. A share buy back programme was announced last August 2006 when the shares were trading below its net asset backing, the share price then rose quickly after the announcement so none were purchased. It would interesting if this program is still in place as it would be a cheap option to mop up cheap shares and store them in the company treasury.....

They must have read my post

[lakeside]

Annual report on the website. Nothing too exiting 2007 was hard work, 2008 will be more. Deal with Kiwibank could be good.Their equity is good.
Upward shareprice must be due to the buy back as you suggest hoop.Such small volumes it will be easy to raise the price and with 2% of shares with "leveraged equities " one hopes not too leveraged the way the share price has dived.

[Phaedrus]

Hoop, given that DPC is in a downtrend, and has been for 2 years so far, statistically the most likely direction for it is down.

Here is a chart that you might find interesting. On it I have marked the Close before the 2006 buyback was announced and the Close on the day of the announcement. You can see that there was a rise of 11 cents (5.2%). The actual buyback began on 2/8/06 and, while we can never be certain, it is hard to see any really significant and lasting positive effects. Certainly any rises occasioned were not enough to stem the on-going downtrend. Today's announcement probably triggered the rise of 8 cents (4.8%). In short, though, I would not want to pin too much hope on the buyback, though of course this must be viewed as a longterm positive.

Paper Tiger claims that "steps" in the OBV have no significance and should be ignored. Take a look at the two here (circled in magenta). See how in both cases they forewarned of future weakness, preceding quite large falls in the shareprice. See how the OBV step triggered a Sell signal 4 months ahead of the trendline break Sell signal - albeit at much the same price. Neat eh? It certainly pays to keep a close eye on the actions of big players.

[lakeside]

NTA is $1.92 a share so shouldn't go too much lower as they aren't losing money, just not going anywhere fast.

[Hoop]

Phaedrus
Great chart. I use very basic TA as a tool, but TA facinates me to the point of being spooky. This OBV sell down signal you circled in red seems to be a precurser to a shareprice drop, I know it works and I usually apply KISS and don't waste my time normally as to why this happens, I just use my discipline to sell out (exception with DPC obviously). I use the theory that you use the tool thats it!!, e.g you turn on the the TV to watch the news, you don't think all the processes the TV goes thru to work to give you the news, you take it for granted, same for me using Basic TA..
..Except now!!
For the life of me.. I can't relate the OBV drops to the price drop later in your above example. Your first OBV red circle was due to several factors at once Hugh Green Inv exercising his Sept05 warrants early (to get Div)and had to sell his head shares to keep under the 20% cap and some sort of dealing thru the mkt between Bridgecorp and Hugh Green with those shares. Exercising the warrants at $1.70 would cause a slight dilution factor pricewise...but there was nothing sinister like a big investor bailing out because of special knowledge.
The second OBV red circle the big one a couple of months ago was this Mickey Mouse share swaping between DPC and StL and StL swapping the Bridgecorp loan for their DPC shares. Again big volumes were transacted and increased numbers of shares causing a dilution but again nothing sinister,only Bridgecorp bailed out and they were a reluctant seller I think..

.....well I not going to waste any more time writing and thinking.....TA works and that is good enough for me.
ThXs for the imput Phaedreus I have learn't alot over the years with your charting.
...you are probably wondering if I use TA principles as well as FA why I still have DPC shares?
.. I bought heaps at 66cents a few years ago so I now get huge yield rates Yes.. Yes I hear you say why didn't I sell out at $2.80 at Xmas 2004? It was under a takeover cloud then so I decided to wait...and I am still waiting [:o)][:o)]..But I think for not much longer, I expect things are going to happen shortly. I'm a long term investor in nature with lots of patience. Your graph may show a 2.5 year downtrend but money was made by shareholders during the first 1.5 years of the downtrend time through the gifting and exercising/selling of warrants.Its only been the last year of the this 2.5 year downtrend that the DPC share has gone pearshaped for it's investors.